North Korea warns of nuclear war amid rising tensions

[Felch]

I'm no fan of Kim Jong, but it's up to the Korean people to work that out. I don't see him as an aggressive threat, though.

True. I'm not eager to see Americans dying to liberate anybody else. But don't call with North Korea has "liberty." All right?

The first quote you have, I don't see any threats. Making weapons is not a threat, defensive nuclear deterrence is a valid posture for a nation to take.

Missle defense is a defensive tool. According the the DPRK, America is using it as an aggressive instrument. Nuclear weapons are undeniably offensive. But you're saying that they're defensive? When did these words switch around in meaning? You are, as Orwell said, "like a cuttlefish spurting out ink."

And the second thing about kidnapping, that is very unfortunate, and sounds a lot like the U.S policy of rounding up Arabs and detaining them indefinitely at Gitmo and CIA 'black sites' without charges, legal representation, or humane treatment.

So now those poor women are guilty by association with the United States? Jail Bush. Jail Cheney. Free the reporters.

[Wezil]

You're taking North Korea's word at face value. I trust the Current TV people's story when they say that their people were in China. Frankly I trust Gore more than Kim. But that's just me.

Burden of proof is on you as it is your allegation (kidnapping). Possible? Certainly. I'm not prepared to accept it just b/c some prominent ex-politician says so.

It essentially is capital punishment. Survival rates in their prison system are said to be very low. But you're too self-righteous about your America bashing to give a **** about a couple reporters who are being slowly tortured and murdered.

Why do you continue to argue with me on something we are agreement on? Were you dropped on your head? I already said (this will make three times) I disagree with the punishment. Do you need to hear it a fourth time or can we move on from this strawman?

Kidnapping is my allegation based on what Current TV was saying, and North Korea's history of kidnapping people. It's hardly a baseless accusation.

It is baseless without proof. Past bad conduct is not proof of current allegations.

Go ahead and yuck it up. But I'm not from the same country as Ben Kenobi.

True enough (although he does desperately want to be part of your tribe. He feels more at home in your country). You can claim GWB though. Would you like to continue this game?

[SlowwHand]

Serious enough that NK is being criticized by their buddies.

Paper: N. Korea may fire missile toward Hawaii
Japanese analysis of intelligence reportedly suggests launch in early July

updated 7:38 a.m. CT, Thurs., June 18, 2009

SEOUL, South Korea - North Korea may fire a long-range ballistic missile toward Hawaii in early July, a Japanese newspaper reported Thursday, as Russia and China urged the regime to return to international disarmament talks on its rogue nuclear program.

The missile, believed to be a Taepodong-2 with a range of up to 4,000 miles, would be launched from North Korea's Dongchang-ni site on the northwestern coast, said the Yomiuri daily, Japan's top-selling newspaper. It cited an analysis by the Japanese Defense Ministry and intelligence gathered by U.S. reconnaissance satellites.

The missile launch could come between July 4 and 8, the paper said.

In a rare move, leaders of Russia and China used their meetings in Moscow on Wednesday to pressure the North to return to the nuclear talks and expressed "serious concerns" about tension on the Korean peninsula.

[Felch]

Burden of proof is on you as it is your allegation (kidnapping). Possible? Certainly. I'm not prepared to accept it just b/c some prominent ex-politician says so.

It is baseless without proof. Past bad conduct is not proof of current allegations

We can't prove anything. Even the Swedes (America's protecting power in the DPRK) weren't allowed proper access to the accused, or to represent them during the "trial." If you refuse to accept that they were probably kidnapped, at least don't repeat the lies of the regime.

Why do you continue to argue with me on something we are agreement on? Were you dropped on your head? I already said (this will make three times) I disagree with the punishment. Do you need to hear it a fourth time or can we move on from this strawman?

Because you seemed to regard it as a minor issue. Kind of like if you said that you disapprove of a lynching. I suppose it's simply a matter of my misunderstanding your position. Sorry.

True enough (although he does desperately want to be part of your tribe. He feels more at home in your country). You can claim GWB though. Would you like to continue this game?

Shucks. I guess you win this round.

[HalfLotus]

True. I'm not eager to see Americans dying to liberate anybody else. But don't call with North Korea has "liberty." All right?



Missle defense is a defensive tool. According the the DPRK, America is using it as an aggressive instrument. Nuclear weapons are undeniably offensive. But you're saying that they're defensive? When did these words switch around in meaning? You are, as Orwell said, "like a cuttlefish spurting out ink."



So now those poor women are guilty by association with the United States? Jail Bush. Jail Cheney. Free the reporters.

I'm not suggesting that the NK people have liberty under the Kim Jong regime, but they absolutely should have liberty from US/UN interference.

Nuclear deterrence and MAD have been the bedrock of defensive military posture since WW2. It is not inherently offensive. You need to brush up on nuclear war theory.

And the article which says 'NK threatens nulcear war' is a misleading title. What NK said exactly, and what I pointed out that the article did not include, was that the US has nukes in SK, which is very much offensive (if true) - and that NK would respond defensively to such aggression.

I'm not suggested either that the kidnappees are guilty by assoc, but the US is taking a rather hypocritical diplomatic posture by citing those events - and if I were NK, I wouldn't take them very seriously.

[Wezil]

Felch - Do you have a link to the Current TV story you mentioned earlier (about the kidnapping). I would like to read it.

[Wezil]

We can't prove anything. Even the Swedes (America's protecting power in the DPRK) weren't allowed proper access to the accused, or to represent them during the "trial." If you refuse to accept that they were probably kidnapped, at least don't repeat the lies of the regime.

So the allegation is baseless. I'm not accepting "lies of the regime" but rather just looking at the facts on their face. Until I see some evidence of kidnapping I must presume they came under NK arrest in NK.

Because you seemed to regard it as a minor issue. Kind of like if you said that you disapprove of a lynching. I suppose it's simply a matter of my misunderstanding your position. Sorry.

It's not that it is minor, it's just not what we were discussing. It was the "kidnapping" I have issue with.

The punishment is obviously absurd unless of course their crimes go beyond simple "illegal entry" (eg. they truly were spying). I would have to buy the NK regimes "lies" to believe that however.

Shucks. I guess you win this round.

I wonder how long that ace in the hole will carry currency?

[Dis]

I think we should appease them to get them to reduce their program. How about given them half of south Korea? That is sure to work.

[Felch]

Felch - Do you have a link to the Current TV story you mentioned earlier (about the kidnapping). I would like to read it.

Actually, I was looking for it, and couldn't find it. Apparently Current is trying to avoid offending NK. So I suppose you're right, and the reporters were spies in the service of the American imperialists and their puppets in Seoul.

I was wrong. I admit it. Dear Leader has been merciful. Thank you for showing me the error of my ways, and the correctness of juche.

[Dis]

As for a more serious response. We can talk about it all we want. But NK is going to do what it wants regardless. No amount of talks or sanctions will change that. I'm actually saying to be nice to them. Time is on our side. Eventually the country will crumble to pieces. The only bad thing is where the nukes go. But like I said, we can't control them getting nukes. It's a lost cause.

[Felch]

Nuclear deterrence and MAD have been the bedrock of defensive military posture since WW2. It is not inherently offensive. You need to brush up on nuclear war theory.

**** theory. A big ass bomb that destroys cities is not defensive. One can argue that the best defense is a good offense, but that doesn't change the fact that a nuke is an offensive device.

I'm not suggested either that the kidnappees are guilty by assoc, but the US is taking a rather hypocritical diplomatic posture by citing those events - and if I were NK, I wouldn't take them very seriously.

Life is full of hypocrisy. That doesn't excuse the guilty.

[Patroklos]

And the second thing about kidnapping, that is very unfortunate, and sounds a lot like the U.S policy of rounding up Arabs and detaining them indefinitely at Gitmo and CIA 'black sites' without charges, legal representation, or humane treatment.

[HalfLotus]

**** theory.

We kinda have to rely on theory since nukes haven't been used much. And of course the only country to drop a nuke would be......?

[Felch]

USA! USA! USA!

And it wasn't defensive.

[Dis]

USA! USA! USA!

And it wasn't defensive.

sure it was. We didn't start the war.