Trial begins in slaying of transgender woman

[Q Classic]

So, in other words, you're summarily discounting and excising a very large part of her life? And that's not, at a minimum, disrespectful?

I'm not saying you should agree with what she did, or even that the whole transgendered thing makes sense; but being a woman was who she was and lived as. It's only common courtesy.

[Jon Miller]

If (s)he had a dick and XY DNA then (s)he wasn't a female, this isn't a matter of opinion but a matter of science.

JM

[Q Classic]

If she referred to herself as a she, and lived as a woman, regardless of her chromosomes or body parts, she should be treated as a woman.

[Grandpa Troll]

if she referred to herself as a she, and lived as a woman, regardless of her chromosomes or body parts, she should be treated as a woman.

q.f.t.

[Lorizael]

If she referred to herself as a she, and lived as a woman, regardless of her chromosomes or body parts, she should be treated as a woman.

I'd rather the individual be treated as a human.

[Q Classic]

Lorizael, yes, that too is an issue, the treatment of women. And I get what you're trying to say, that Angie Zapata should have been accorded the respect that humans deserve. Out of context, though, that line would be quite... unfortunate.

[DinoDoc]

If she referred to herself as a she, and lived as a woman, regardless of her chromosomes or body parts, she should be treated as a woman.

Why?

[Patroklos]

If she referred to herself as a she, and lived as a woman, regardless of her chromosomes or body parts, she should be treated as a woman.

If he is an overt male heterosexual, then he should have been treated as an overt male heterosexual. That means not tucking your **** between your legs in deception and pretending its not there.

[Q Classic]

My mom refers to herself as an American, lives as an American, regardless of the fact that she wasn't a citizen until 2003; she was, out of common courtesy, treated as an American.

Generally, when you refer to yourself one way, live that way, and consider yourself that way, you'd like people to respect that--you refer to yourself as a striaght male, live as a straight male, and consider yourself a striaght male. Thus, to treat you any differently wouldn't be all that proper, wouldn't you agree?

Ben thinks of himself as Catholic, lives as how he thinks a Catholic should, and refers to himself as a Catholic. If I actually respected him, I'd consider him Catholic. But I don't.

You don't have to think of her as a woman, but it would be courteous and respectful to at least refer to her and treat her as one. That's what I'm saying--gender and sex are not quite as immutable as everyone assumes, since nature has, and does, make mistakes, and nurture does exert some pressure one way or another.

I don't know the circumstances of where Ms. Zapata was headed; I don't know if she was planning on transitioning and having the reassignment operation. What I do know at this time, however, is that she knew herself to be a woman, not a man.

[Q Classic]

If he is an overt male heterosexual, then he should have been treated as an overt male heterosexual. That means not tucking your **** between your legs in deception and pretending its not there.

I didn't say I was defending her actions there. Indeed, I've stated that I think that, if she were actually going to spend time with her eventual murderer for any length of time, she should have been quite forthcoming about it.

But thanks for launching a broadside against a strawman.

[Lorizael]

Lorizael, yes, that too is an issue, the treatment of women. And I get what you're trying to say, that Angie Zapata should have been accorded the respect that humans deserve. Out of context, though, that line would be quite... unfortunate.

No, I think you misunderstood me. I think it's stupid for people to identify as one gender or another. I think it perpetuates a system that breeds hatred. Zapata should be treated like a human and nothing more. What sexual organs she has and what psychological makeup she has shouldn't matter. She should be able to express herself however she chooses, but identifying with a constrained gender definition will not help her do that.

I'm not saying that transgendered individuals are stupid for the choices they make, though. While they may feel out of place in a society that demands gender norms, they still take their cues from society's standards. We collectively reinforce the stereotypes that make up gender so strongly that it would be nearly impossible for anyone not to associate with them, whether matching their biological sex or not.

[Q Classic]

Fair point--I didn't know that was the direction you were taking it in. And while I tend to agree with what you're saying, I'm thinking baby steps first.

It's probably easier to suggest that there's a place for transgendered individuals first, before suggesting that the gender binary should be done away with.

[Grandpa Troll]

Great points @ Q Classic & Lorizael

[Lorizael]

Fair point--I didn't know that was the direction you were taking it in. And while I tend to agree with what you're saying, I'm thinking baby steps first.

It's probably easier to suggest that there's a place for transgendered individuals first, before suggesting that the gender binary should be done away with.

Bah!

[Q Classic]

Y'know, when the family refers to Angie as their daughter and sister, I think that's a clue that maybe we should consider her as a woman, not a man.



Transcript of the Zapata Family Statement, via Feministe.