F-22 will see no more orders, VH-71 cancelled

[Asher]

I don't see why it's so far off.

The planes are already fly-by-wire.
There's ample communication systems with levels of redundancy and security to make realtime control of the planes possible anywhere in the world.

[Naked Gents Rut]

Any cursory examination of the Chinese air force clearly shows it is not.

You should do your examination again.

There's ample communication systems with levels of redundancy and security to make realtime control of the planes possible anywhere in the world.

I think you're being optimistic about the redundancy and security.

[GePap]

Air superiority over the Taiwan Straits is a NAVY job. Last time I checked, the F-22 doesn't take off carriers.

And no, I don't expect F-22's to be based on Taiwan in the course of such a conflict, given the vulnerability of Taiwanese airfields to missile attacks.

You're insane if you think the U.S. would find the risk of operating F-22s off of Taiwanese airfields to be too great but would be fine with sending American carriers close enough to the Chinese coast to get involved.

The first overseas deployment of the F-22 was in Okinawa for a reason.

Who said we would be sending carriers near the Chinese coast? The straits of Taiwan are 100 mi. We could keep our carriers away from the coast and close to Taiwain, or heck, on the other side of the Island, as long as our planes could keep control of the airpsace over Taiwan, and of some miles into the straights.

[Naked Gents Rut]

What good is merely controlling the airspace over Taiwan or part of the straits? That won't stop the Chinese missile barrage of Taiwan...

The straits of Taiwan are 100 mi.

That's not very far. Anywhere west of Guam is becoming increasingly dangerous for American carriers.

[GePap]

Just having airframes doesn't mean much. The Chinese could go on buying all the advanced Russian planes they want, but until they train their pilots to the same standards we do, and spend the same amount on all the support systems, including sensor systems and control systems inside the planes themselves, a place the US still leads, then their airforce won't be a plane to plane match, and won't be able to compete on nearly the same level.

As for your comment Drake about the Chinese sinking our carriers, what the **** does continuing the F-22 program help to address that issue? Nothing.

On top of that, the basic question v. China re; Taiwan is a simple one: how far is each side ready to go? I think it more logical to say that China is more willing to lose a major city over the issue than we are - ergo, at the end of the day, China has the upper hand, whatever the match-up of airframes is.

[Naked Gents Rut]

As for your comment Drake about the Chinese sinking our carriers, what the **** does continuing the F-22 program help to address that issue? Nothing.

It gives us the U.S. a land-based fighter presence that can continue to operate from Japan and Taiwan even after the waters within the Second Island Chain have become too dangerous for American carriers. Duh.

Just having airframes doesn't mean much. The Chinese could go on buying all the advanced Russian planes they want, but until they train their pilots to the same standards we do, and spend the same amount on all the support systems, including sensor systems and control systems inside the planes themselves, a place the US still leads, then their airforce won't be a plane to plane match, and won't be able to compete on nearly the same level.

Thank you for stating something obvious. Now why don't you explain why you think the Chinese won't be able to match American training standards? Do you think they're really so stupid as to spend billions to improve the quality of their aircraft while ignoring the quality of their pilots?

[GePap]

What good is merely controlling the airspace over Taiwan or part of the straits? That won't stop the Chinese missile barrage of Taiwan...

And F-22 from Okinawa won't stop that either. There is nothing the US can realisticaly do to stop the Chinese from doing that. The issue is preventing a Chinese blockade of the island or an actual invasion, but China lacks the blue water ability to do the later.

That's not very far. Anywhere west of Guam is becoming increasingly dangerous for American carriers.

And as I said above, the F-22 program does nothing whatsoever to lower that threat.

[GePap]

It gives us the U.S. a land-based fighter presence that can continue to operate from Japan and Taiwan even after the waters within the Second Island Chain have become too dangerous for American carriers. Duh.

I find it hillarious that you still think the US would park its fancy and expensive F-22 in these Taiwanese airfields which are juicy targets for Chinese missiles, a threat air superiority fighters can do absolutely nothing to stem anyways. Unless you want to claim that they would be able to shoot down missiles as they were coming in, which is a fancy fantasy. LAst time I checked the F-22 hasn't any significant ground strike ability.

Japan itself is also too far away to be a base for effective control over that airspace, and the use of their fields would also become a political issue, depending on what the Japanese mood to piss of China would be.

[Naked Gents Rut]

There is nothing the US can realisticaly do to stop the Chinese from doing that.

Besides attacking the missiles, of course, but you don't seem to have thought of that.

And as I said above, the F-22 program does nothing whatsoever to lower that threat.

It's not supposed to, you ****. It gives the U.S. another means of establishing air superiority in the Taiwan theater if carriers are unable to do the job.

[TCO]

I hate the Air Force.

[GePap]

Thank you for stating something obvious. Now why don't you explain why you think the Chinese won't be able to match American training standards? Do you think they're really so stupid as to spend billions to improve the quality of their aircraft while ignoring the quality of their pilots?

Training costs money. China is expending, but they have ways to go - very long ways to go. Heck, we could probably design a new aircraft and get into production faster than it would be for China to match what we already have on the books coming in today, unless they really expanded their abilities, and if they do so, why not just expand their nuclear force and make it suicidal for the US to even think of jumping in for Taiwan.

[Naked Gents Rut]

I find it hillarious that you still think the US would park its fancy and expensive F-22 in these Taiwanese airfields which are juicy targets for Chinese missiles, a threat air superiority fighters can do absolutely nothing to stem anyways.

You're the one who thinks the U.S. would rather park a $5+ billion carrier and its full complement of aircraft and crew in harms's way rather than risk some $100 million fighters dispersed at numerous airfields.

I hate the Air Force.

Me too. They're good at certain things, though, like building golf courses.

[GePap]

There is nothing the US can realisticaly do to stop the Chinese from doing that.

Besides attacking the missiles, of course, but you don't seem to have thought of that.

With what? Those magically non-stike F-22??

With carriers facing a sub threat that air superiority fighters do nothing to lower?

[TCO]

I find it hillarious that you still think the US would park its fancy and expensive F-22 in these Taiwanese airfields which are juicy targets for Chinese missiles, a threat air superiority fighters can do absolutely nothing to stem anyways.

You're the one who thinks the U.S. would rather park a $5+ billion carrier and its full complement of aircraft and crew in harms's way rather than risk some $100 million fighters dispersed at numerous airfields.

I hate the Air Force.

Me too. They're good at certain things, though, like building golf courses.

Who cares about fighters?

And the BOQs they have!!!

[TCO]

How did you reply to two different postes in one post, quoting both. Are you an admin, Drake?