F-22 will see no more orders, VH-71 cancelled

[Patroklos]

Also, I think the drones increasingly are being used to deliver ordinance. This is a recent phenomenon, leading me to believe that development is progressing rapidly enough that drones designed for air superiority aren't out of the question.

If you mean increasingly .01% of the time, sure. We can argue the potential usefullness of drones all day, but as of right now the are still quite the oddity.

I'm more concerned that we'll build all of these nice shiny expensive F-22s, but the Chinese will field a large drone air force for a fraction of the cost suitable to overwhelm any F-22s force.

The life span of an F-22 is right around 35 years. If you think we are magically going to have us, let alone China, producing anything even remotely as capable in drone form within that time frame I applaud you for your optimism but do not share it.

It has been recognized that the F-22 is probably going to be the last purpose built manned fighter designed for general USAF use, but to pretend that the next half century is not going to be dominated by manned flight is absurd, and the F-22 was designed with that half century in mind.

[TCO]

They should be controlled by the organization using them. It's not even just a talking to each other thing (although important), but a having people in same chain of command. And then having them in theater is best.

We are talking about fricking drones, people. Not space assets.

[TCO]

Kitty:

Kidicious is on my ignore. Please don't copy him. Actually that gives me an idea.

[KrazyHorse]

Kitty:

Kidicious is on my ignore. Please don't copy him.

I didn't.

[DanS]

Here's a good article that goes into some detail about what happens and where with regard to drones. They quote a near-tripling of drone missions per day in the last two years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/17/business/17uav.html

If you mean increasingly .01% of the time, sure.

To be sure, a regular fighter plane also doesn't use those capabilities much in relation to total sorties.

[TCO]

I bet it's a power play by CIA to have all this stuff stateside. They should get this stuff in the theater commanders hands. This is almost a truism for anything.

[Naked Gents Rut]

BTW, the Marine Corps VTOL requirement is based on the need to replace the harriers, or in other words being able to operate off of our large deck amphibs.

Use helicopters.

I'm more concerned that we'll build all of these nice shiny expensive F-22s with decades-long lead times. Meanwhile, the Chinese will field a large drone air force for a fraction of the cost and lead times and use it to overwhelm any F-22 force.

Why wouldn't the U.S. be able to build a drone force to match the Chinese? The more realistic threat is that the Chinese will build up a large air force of advanced Russian fighters that can overwhelm a small force of F-22s. Such a buildup is already taking place.

[Serb]

This thread sucks without Serb - FACT!

Well, you asked for that.
My two Russian cents. I regret they gonna stop further production of F-22, 'cause F-22 is a shining piece of over-priced and overrated crap - FACT!
Look at its performance against an early WW2 fighter.




Utterly obsoleted.

[Lord Avalon]

Meanwhile, the Chinese will field a large drone air force for a fraction of the cost and lead times and use it to overwhelm any F-22 force.

Does gold farming lead to drone flying?

[Naked Gents Rut]

I regret they gonna stop further production of F-22, 'cause F-22 is a shining piece of over-priced and overrated crap - FACT!

Why is Sukhoi doing their best to copy it, then?

[TCO]

My uncle could take any of these guys in a Phantom. 500 missions in VN and a Navy Cross and a CAG. Used to go spank all his pilots by sneaking up in their blind spot...

Landing on the carrier at night in rough seas was scarier than having SAMs on his tail (twice).

[TCO]

He really like the F18, though...

[Patroklos]

Use helicopters.

We do, for the things helicopters are good at, which normally do not include the things that fixed wing CAS aircraft are good at.

Why wouldn't the U.S. be able to build a drone force to match the Chinese? The more realistic threat is that the Chinese will build up a large air force of advanced Russian fighters that can overwhelm a small force of F-22s. Such a buildup is already taking place.

Any cursory examination of the Chinese air force clearly shows it is not. Well, unless their end goal for saturation warfare is a hundred years from now.

[TCO]

The whole drone discussion seems a little too far off.

I think a better option is discussing just keeping current airframes and or buying more of current design.

[Patroklos]

This is the case with the F18. If I remember correctly the F-15E American models have been out of production for some time, with the final foreign speck models finished this year for SK.

You have to remember that the F16/F15 are 70s era aircraft, they really have no buisness being built anew for future use. The F18 is only marginally more recent. You don't have to go F22 high and to the right, but there have been basic fundemental innovations in aviation since 1970 that can only be incorporated by a from the ground up new design.