F-22 will see no more orders, VH-71 cancelled

[KrazyHorse]

You do know that the chinese have satellites and ELINT planes, right?

Hiding a carrier group is something that happened in WWII. Good luck doing it today.

[Asher]

The F-22 is an Air Force figther and not a Navy fighter.

That sentence was in English.

[GePap]

You do know that the chinese have satellites and ELINT planes, right?

Hiding a carrier group is something that happened in WWII. Good luck doing it today.

Did I say hide? no, I said move.

[Naked Gents Rut]

Becuase you can find Taiwanese airfields by looking up Google Earth, and then by doing some trig, the Chinese could aims their hundreds of missiles at them.

Funnily enough, I just got done placemarking all the major Taiwanese air bases in Google Earth. You apparently haven't done the same or you would've noticed the super-hardened airbases like Cha Shan...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/taiwan/cha-shan.htm

Maybe I'm just misguided, but I'd much rather send F-22s to Taiwan and hide them inside a mountain while they're not in the air than send a carrier into harm's way.

You are out of your mind if you think that the US would have any planes on Taiwanese soil prior to the start of hostility.

Nice strawman. Where did I say that? It's certainly possible depending on how the hostilities develop, but I wouldn't assume such a thing.

[GePap]

Funnily enough, I just got done placemarking all the major Taiwanese air bases in Google Earth. You apparently haven't done the same or you would've noticed the super-hardened airbases like Cha Shan...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/taiwan/cha-shan.htm

Maybe I'm just misguided, but I'd much rather send F-22s to Taiwan and hide them inside a mountain while they're not in the air than send a carrier into harm's way.

You have always been misguided- that is a given with you. A F-22 hiding in a mountain is hardly one gaining the upper hand in air superiority. Its runways that count.And to return to the earlier point, to stop Chinese missile attacks, the need would be for planes other than F-22, given their lack of strike ability. This is all assumign the chinese didn't decide to terminate a place like Chan-shan with extreme measures from the beginning.

Andnyour claim still doesn't address the pre-basing issue.

Nice strawman. Where did I say that? It's certainly possible depending on how the hostilities develop, but I wouldn't assume such a thing.

Then you are being foolish - wait, you are always foolish....

The US recognizes the one China policy - as long as we do, US forces in Taiwan itself are a non-starter prior to breaking of hostilities. heck, the very attempt to place US forces in theater could be whatv starts everything off, and we still wouldn't be ready.

[Naked Gents Rut]

Its runways that count.

Apparently air forces have no experience or capabilities with runway repair in your world. It would be much better to rely on aircraft carriers that can't be repaired when they're lying on the bottom of the ocean.

Andnyour claim still doesn't address the pre-basing issue.

What "pre-basing issue"? You just invented it because you don't know what the **** you're talking about and needed something to distract me with. I'm not falling for it.

[KrazyHorse]

Did I say hide? no, I said move.

Errr....you can't outrun a ****ing missile in a ship.

[KrazyHorse]

I have no idea where GePap got the idea that CVNs are LESS vulnerable to attack than are land-based runways.

[Naked Gents Rut]

I think it stems from his retardation.

[KrazyHorse]

Pre-basing issue?

You do realize how ****ing fast these bad boys fly, right?

Why the **** do you think it would take carriers LESS time to get in position than land-based fighters?

[Asher]

I have no idea where GePap got the idea that CVNs are LESS vulnerable to attack than are land-based runways.

They don't teach this kind of stuff in bureaucrat school.

[Kuciwalker]

Even if CVN's were harder to hit, which do you think is easier to replace? A long paved strip of concrete, or a 90000-ton warship with a nuclear reactor and 6000 trained crew?

[GePap]

I bet I am the only one here that took a class with one of the professors that analyzed the results of the air war after the first Gulf War, on this very issue of national defense - unless that was part of your physic and computer curriculums.. wait, probably not.

1. rebasing a squadron of high performance aircraft involves more than just flying the plane to an airfield. You need to move all the required support equipment, munitions and fuel. That and the support personel to do maintenance and so forth. this is not something achieved overnight, and no, I don't think the US had been setting long term planes with the Taiwanese to do so, nor that the US has all the suport systems ready to go at the drop of a hat. So to assume that the US could rebase a significant number of these planes overnight and have that force be effective is absurd and exhibits a fair amount of ignorance. There is a reaosn why it took months to prepare to take on the Iraqi paper Tiger.

2. Airfields are static targets whose locations are well known, You may harden bunkers but planes like the F-15 and F-22 need long, pristine runways to take off. If you know where to shoot all your missiles early on (and this is assuming you don't decide to use more serious weapons), you could probably knock out the runways. A Carrier may be vulnerable to subs, but at least they can move and ASW measures exist, while shooting down a heap of missiles is not a plausible defense posture.

Also, a single missile, unless nuclear, won't take out a CVN. Maybe a single torpedo will, but then a single missile can crater a runway enough to make it useless.

So why don't you folks stop talking out your ass and make plausible comments about military deployments?

[Naked Gents Rut]

Dude, I could totally do a study like this...

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/files/2008_RAND_Pacific_View_Air_Combat_Briefing.pdf

It's all Lanchester modeling with some Google Earth work for the slides. Maybe I should've applied at RAND after all.

[Naked Gents Rut]

I bet I am the only one here that took a class with one of the professors that analyzed the results of the air war after the first Gulf War, on this very issue of national defense

I'm not impressed.