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  • #31
    Originally posted by Unimatrix11 View Post
    About the crisis itself, i will point out once more: It is not the result of the misbehaviour of a certain group of people. In 29 in wasnt the jews, and in 08 it was not the bankers - it´s part of the system, and intrisic to it.
    This guy from the IMF sez otherwize though I agree, it is intrinsic to the system.

    Originally posted by rtwinger View Post
    Che, why is this a good thing?
    Do you wish for a class struggle type of revolt with people being killed?
    Uh, communist, duh. I would point out that the current capitalist system results in 24,000 people dying a day from malnutrition and access to bad drinking water. While I certainly don't wish for people to be killed (joking aside about individual people), if people have to be killed in order to create a world where the wealthy nations will transfer enough wealth to the poor nations to saves those lives, it will be worth it. In a decade, that would be almost 88 million people whose lives could be saved.
    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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    • #32
      +, -, *, /, lots of math lots of numbers to calculate the acceptable losses, 100 000 here, 10 million there...

      Once you start talking about how many thousands are acceptable losses to create the workers paradise you just lose me.

      Had some interesting conversations last month in Cambodia with some guys who put the idea into practice, and still go around talking about 'regrettable but necessary' etc.

      I'd rather be a bum picking out the juiciest maggots from some fat bankers left-over Big Mac on Wall Street than have to live in the kind of society where True Communism is always 'just around the corner'...if only we can get those foreigner 'wreckers', spies, sentimental bourgeois, kids who wear glasses, etc. who are the last barrier holding us back.

      Trying to create the perfect world is, of necessity and by nature, a totalitarian project that leads to informants, fear, torture, crushing of dissent, and ultimately mass graves.
      "Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
      "...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
      "sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.

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      • #33
        So you'd rather one hundred million die then you personally have to shoot someone? You have a very ****ed up sense of morality.

        The perfect world cannot be created. That doesn't mean we cannot try to create a better one. If our species followed your logic, we'd still be living on the African savanna, scavenging for roots, berries, nuts, and what ever could run away fast enough or was being picked over by weaker animals. Thankfully, we always try and improve our condition.

        Lastly, Cambodia was a peasant revolution, which, if you know *ANYTHING* about communism, you should know it is not what communism is about. What happened in Cambodia is the same crap we see around the world and history whenever peasants get fed up with their lot, rise up, and win. Just like rural Americans, they are deeply suspicious, mistrustful, and even hateful towards the cities they see as dens of vice, crime, and who exploit them.
        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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        • #34
          So it's totally different when industrial laborers get fed up, rise up, and win? Er, I mean if, not when, since that's never happened, but is there something special about being an ignorant, POed press operator as opposed to an ignorant POed yak herder that makes your revolutions result in a more harmonious society?
          1011 1100
          Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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          • #35
            While I certainly don't wish for people to be killed (joking aside about individual people), if people have to be killed in order to create a world where the wealthy nations will transfer enough wealth to the poor nations to saves those lives, it will be worth it. In a decade, that would be almost 88 million people whose lives could be saved.
            Not worth it if my quality of life goes down. I like my life, thank you very much.
            Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
            Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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            • #36
              I would never bother to try and convince you, DF.

              Originally posted by Elok View Post
              So it's totally different when industrial laborers get fed up, rise up, and win? Er, I mean if, not when, since that's never happened, but is there something special about being an ignorant, POed press operator as opposed to an ignorant POed yak herder that makes your revolutions result in a more harmonious society?
              Historically, when the peasants revolted, they burn down the manor homes and towns. It ain't pretty. Historically, when the workers revolted, they didn't turn around and start exterminating people. In fact, too often they let their class enemies escape, who then turn around, organization a counter revolution, and slaughter the workers. There are counter examples here and there, but we're talking about general trends.

              The question you ask, then, is why? Well, nut bar individuals aside, peasants tend to live a very isolated experience, usually only knowing their own tiny village, and maybe a new people from neighboring villages. Their experience with outsiders is generally oppressive. Rural life is a lot more conservative.

              Conversely, urban life is tends to be very social. You work with many people in close proximity, you live in close proximity, you travel with many people, you often eat with many people, you experience a multitude of types of people and cultures. Urban life tends to be a lot more cosmopolitan.

              Again, we're talking about general trends, and there are counter trends, such as racism, sexism, the ideology of the ruling class, etc. Given, however, the stereotypes about the rural.urban divide in America, don't pretend like this is some whacked out, alien idea you've never encountered. I'm sure you've never made a joke about hillbillies marrying their sisters. The whole red state/blue state divide is precisely such an example of this division.
              Last edited by chequita guevara; March 29, 2009, 13:08.
              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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              • #37
                But you'd be OK redistributing my personal "wealth", anyway, right?

                What gives you the moral authority?
                Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
                Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by David Floyd View Post
                  But you'd be OK redistributing my personal "wealth", anyway, right?

                  What gives you the moral authority?
                  The same moral authority that agreed it was acceptable to redistribute the wealth of slave owners and free their slaves.

                  In any event, we've had this discussion for almost a decade, DF, so why continue it? Just say you disagree and move on.
                  Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                  • #39
                    In any event, we've had this discussion for almost a decade
                    Wow, that's a good point. A decade? Jesus. It's good to see we've all gotten older, if not necessarily wiser
                    Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
                    Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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                    • #40
                      The same moral authority that agreed it was acceptable to redistribute the wealth of slave owners and free their slaves.
                      More importantly, that comparison is completely false. Just because people are starving in the Third World doesn't make them my slave.
                      Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
                      Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by chequita guevara View Post
                        The same moral authority that agreed it was acceptable to redistribute the wealth of slave owners and free their slaves.

                        In any event, we've had this discussion for almost a decade, DF, so why continue it? Just say you disagree and move on.
                        Okay Che,
                        I like your example. Redistribute wealth from slave owners to slave. Nice parallel, like the CEOs or bankers are exploiting their workers.

                        But okay, let's see if your example works with me. I make a high five figure salary from essentially running online businesses/blogs, which actually may turn into six figures if this year goes well, while also being a student. You would probably advocate redistributing wealth from me because I'm not working class or poor. I am actually a student. My parents didn't pay for me and I made my wealth through my own labor: being a computer nerd and knowing how to drive traffic through websites.

                        How am I a slave owner? Why should I be shot or why should you take my wealth from me? It could be argued that I am actually the "slave," since I rely on so many people, and no one really relies on me.

                        You might argue that since I'm a rightwinger it's morally justifiable to liquidate me, but don't make that argument just yet. Assume, for argument sake that I am a leftwing blogger complaining about George W. Bush that makes that kind of money instead, since the comparison is valid and actually more common in that case.
                        Check out my website: www.rtwinger.com

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                        • #42
                          So, generally speaking, rural people are bad people? That's the distinction? Yes, I make jokes about hillbilly inbreeding, but half the humor of the joke is that it's a recognized stereotype, a tired old trope that's funnier precisely because it's self-perpetuating. It's like a blonde joke. I mostly trot it out to irritate my southern-born fiancee, along with the jokes about her supposed proud heritage of lynching and pig-molesting. Are you telling me your whole ideology relies on the presumed truth of a crude stereotype?
                          1011 1100
                          Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by chequita guevara View Post
                            The same moral authority that agreed it was acceptable to redistribute the wealth of slave owners and free their slaves.
                            As long as Communists equate voluntary agreements to work for wages with involuntary servitude, they will continue to sound like nitwits.

                            When the revolution comes, I'll enjoy blowing you Red retards away.
                            John Brown did nothing wrong.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Felch View Post
                              As long as Communists equate voluntary agreements to work for wages with involuntary servitude, they will continue to sound like nitwits.

                              When the revolution comes, I'll enjoy blowing you Red retards away.
                              I can not kill a man. Rather, would not be able to.
                              Check out my website: www.rtwinger.com

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Kuciwalker View Post
                                Dude, there's one really simple answer to all your questions. Che is a moronic tool with no intellectual integrity.
                                I wouldn't say he doesn't have intellectual integrity. He's fairly constant about the fact that he believes the oppressed should be able to use violence against the oppressor.
                                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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