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  • Originally posted by Velociryx View Post
    So we're back to, "those guys weren't REAL commies," again. *big sigh*

    Kid...enjoy chasing the white rabbit. You and I have had this discussion I don't know how many times.

    We're not going to change each other's minds on the matter...that much is painfully obvious.

    Enjoy the hunt.

    -=Vel=-
    I said they didn't create a democratic system. There were definitely forces within the movement that tried to but they were overcome. The same thing can happen in any system including that in the US. In fact, some would say that it has happened.

    Given another chance in the future things can might turn out different. You seem to be blinding yourself to that possibility.
    I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
    - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

    Comment


    • Given another chance in the future things can might turn out different. You seem to be blinding yourself to that possibility.

      No...what I'm acknowledging is that it's foolish in the extreme to keep trying the same tired song and dance and then show genuine surprise when you don't get a different result.

      Again...figure out how to get around human nature, and you will see a revolution with the results you desire. Till then...white rabbit.

      And again...good luck.

      -=Vel=-
      Last edited by Velociryx; April 2, 2009, 11:35.
      The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

      Comment


      • Alright Kid, I will give you another couple hundred million people to burn for one last try, but this time you have to live with what you get. Deal?
        "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Velociryx View Post
          Given another chance in the future things can might turn out different. You seem to be blinding yourself to that possibility.

          No...what I'm acknowledging is that it's foolish in the extreme to keep trying the same tired song and dance and then show genuine surprise when you don't get a different result.

          Again...figure out how to get around human nature, and you will see a revolution with the results you desire. Till then...white rabbit.

          And again...good luck.

          -=Vel=-
          What are you talking about human nature now for? What does that have to do with the internal struggles within a movement?
          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Patroklos View Post
            Alright Kid, I will give you another couple hundred million people to burn for one last try, but this time you have to live with what you get. Deal?
            I live with what I get, but let the people live.
            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Patroklos View Post
              Alright Kid, I will give you another couple hundred million people to burn for one last try, but this time you have to live with what you get. Deal?
              You're burning them now.
              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

              Comment


              • What are you talking about human nature now for? What does that have to do with the internal struggles within a movement?

                That you even have to ask the question shows how pointless further discussion is.

                -=Vel=-
                The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

                Comment


                • You're burning them now.
                  You lost this line of thought a couple pages back. Please review

                  I live with what I get, but let the people live.
                  Advocating formenting revolution /= living with what you get.
                  "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Velociryx View Post
                    What are you talking about human nature now for? What does that have to do with the internal struggles within a movement?

                    That you even have to ask the question shows how pointless further discussion is.

                    -=Vel=-
                    No. You're yella.
                    I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                    - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                    Comment


                    • Okay Kid. Sure. Whatever you say.

                      -=Vel=-
                      The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Velociryx View Post
                        Okay Kid. Sure. Whatever you say.

                        -=Vel=-
                        Seriously though. You're saying that every revolution ends in with a totalitarian system because of human nature. Back that up please.
                        I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                        - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                        Comment


                        • He is specifically talking about communist revolutions. In which case he is absolutely right, unless you can point out the communist state not run by a strong man.
                          "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Patroklos View Post
                            He is specifically talking about communist revolutions. In which case he is absolutely right, unless you can point out the communist state not run by a strong man.
                            No. Unless you can come up with a reason, then you have nothing.
                            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                            Comment


                            • What most communists don't realize is that most people will be happy if they have:

                              1. Food
                              2. Shelter/Clothing/etc
                              3. enough drugs/material possessions to distract themselves

                              As long as this is the case, the only time that there will be a revolution is if the leaders/etc mismanage enough so that a significant portion of the populace are missing 1, 2, or 3.

                              It is very easy for the populace to be exploited, and still have 1, 2, and 3...

                              JM
                              Jon Miller-
                              I AM.CANADIAN
                              GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                              Comment


                              • Nope...I said that the endpoint of communism, because of faults in its design, gives you totalitarianism every time. Not "every revolution." Every communist revolution.

                                As I've pointed out before (again, and again and again and...), communism isn't scalar. It's barely functional in small groups where there's perfect accountability, but it really shows its weaknesses as you attempt to scale up. You ramp up, lock horns with that pesky element called human nature, and she flies off the tracks and into the arms of a totalitarian state.

                                We could try it once more, or a thousand more times. Won't matter, because until you change something about the nature of the system or human nature itself, you're gonna get the same result.

                                (One of) the reasons capitalism works as well as it does is that it panders to human nature. Granted, it's still a work in progress, and it'll never truly be finished as viewpoints change over time (too much regulation, not enough...that kind of thing will constantly evolve, and I doubt we'll ever hit on a perfect mix)...but for your vision of the utopia to succeed, you've gotta take it into account, and do a better job at channeling it than the current system does.

                                Or...resort to mass murders/forced imprisonment again, but then...we're back to totalitarianism.

                                -=Vel=-
                                The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

                                Comment

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