Designer babies are here.

[Arrian]

There's absolutely no way such a thing should be left to private individuals. The state has proven itself pretty awful at dealing with such things, so it may well prove to be best left as a forbidden fruit.

Sounds about right to me.

-Arrian

[rah]

Yeah, I doubt intelligence will be clear cut.

But it is interesting to see some of the closed minded people here that can only view this as black and white.
Selecting out obvious flaws versus percieved flaws, or unacceptable flaws versus acceptable flaws.
When does it change from keeping a child from being born with an undesired illness to a Nazi Eugenics program.
I'm actually shocked at the automatic comparision to Nazis by some. I thought some of those people were a bit more open minded. The assumption that choosing hair color, eye color or genereal health leads to a master race is quite a stretch.

[Kidlicious]

If they go overboard on males, eventually females would increase in value.

How do you expect that to happen?

[rah]

Very similar to the early periods in the old west. The high ratio of men to women allowed women a considerable advantage when selecting husbands or some other things. Imagine how much greater that advantage would have been if the women then had the same rights as they do today.

And I don't want this to be percieved as women are just a commoditiy type thing. This site is a great example. Compare the status of the few women that post here to the others. Quite a few of the men fawn over each post.

[Ben Kenobi]

But it is interesting to see some of the closed minded people here that can only view this as black and white.

Selecting out obvious flaws versus percieved flaws, or unacceptable flaws versus acceptable flaws.
When does it change from keeping a child from being born with an undesired illness to a Nazi Eugenics program.

It starts when you value people for what they can do, not for who they are.

The assumption that choosing hair color, eye color or genereal health leads to a master race is quite a stretch.

Hair colour, eye colour or skin colour? Why are two ok while the third is not?

[Kidlicious]

Very similar to the early periods in the old west. The high ratio of men to women allowed women a considerable advantage when selecting husbands or some other things. Imagine how much greater that advantage would have been if the women then had the same rights as they do today.

And I don't want this to be percieved as women are just a commoditiy type thing. This site is a great example. Compare the status of the few women that post here to the others. Quite a few of the men fawn over each post.

I thought you meant that it would some how create a balance in the men/women ratio.

The Old West

[DanS]

The assumption that choosing hair color, eye color or genereal health leads to a master race is quite a stretch.

What can you say? The connection is an historic fact. I wish it weren't so.

[Lorizael]

It starts when you value people for what they can do, not for who they are.

How do you value people for who they are, exactly?

[rah]

[QUOTE=Ben Kenobi;5544709]It starts when you value people for what they can do, not for who they are.
[/quote}
Huh. that makes no sense. Hair color makes no difference to how I would value a person.
Maybe if you every have a child someday you'll understand. I love my duaghter unconditionally. Her looks and abilities are immaterial. She was born with a medical condition that I wish I could have spared her from which is part of the reason why this topic interests me. But it's not a life or death thing and I love her anyway.

Hair colour, eye colour or skin colour? Why are two ok while the third is not?

Hmm, i thought that was the point of this thread. Hearing opinions on what people would find acceptable and not. And if you had bother to read my posts you'd see that I thought there might be a benefit to society if people could choose skin color, so I don't really have a problem with that.

Obviously I seem to be on a lonely edge of the spectrum here. While I may share a few opinions with people in the past, it doesn't make me a nazi looking to breed a master race.
People that throw that term out as an accusation are just trying to muddy the issue through bigotry fear.

[Q Classic]

Honestly, until our ethics frameworks catch up to the science, I think the only permissible use of genetic modification for children is eliminating genetic disorders, from things like Down's Syndrome, to Tay-Sachs, to colourblindness.

I don't think we have the tools to fix the most debilitating genetic disorder yet, though, which is that far too many babies being born aren't Asians.

[Ben Kenobi]

How do you value people for who they are, exactly?

It starts with the declaration of independence, "that all men were created equal,"

[Ben Kenobi]

Huh. that makes no sense. Hair color makes no difference to how I would value a person.

*Sigh

I wasn't referring to you personally. The point being that treating people as means and not ends in themselves, is a necessary precursor to eugenics.

Maybe if you every have a child someday you'll understand. I love my duaghter unconditionally. Her looks and abilities are immaterial. She was born with a medical condition that I wish I could have spared her from which is part of the reason why this topic interests me.

Rah, I'm the other side of the coin. I understand the issue as a child of parent who would want the same. Rah, the most thing I long for is simply to live a normal life and be treated as everyone else. As I get older, I see that is more and more difficult, not so much because of my own expectations, but of those people around me and their expectations of me.

I had a long discussion with my mom, and we talked about some of the options available for me as a kid. I'm thankful that she fought against the prevailing wind of segregation and isolation, but at the same time even with the concept of full 'inclusion', still means that there are times I feel as if I'm on the outside looking in.

I'm sure you are a good parent, but just from speaking from my heart, make sure she knows how you feel and that you love her just as she is, not because she could be fixed or better. It's very important. There are plenty of people who mean well and who want to help, but it's not really help I want!

Hmm, i thought that was the point of this thread. Hearing opinions on what people would find acceptable and not. And if you had bother to read my posts you'd see that I thought there might be a benefit to society if people could choose skin color, so I don't really have a problem with that.

Rah, I honestly believe you mean well and are confronted by a situation different from most of us. Trust me, when I say Rah, that your daughter is probably perfectly happy with who she is and her life.

People that throw that term out as an accusation are just trying to muddy the issue through bigotry fear.

I don't believe I've called you a nazi here. All I've said is that some of these ideas are a necessary step. It doesn't mean that anyone who shares these opinions will progress onwards.

It's like a road. You turn down the fork in the same direction. There are other forks and decisions further on that were made by the Nazis, but they all had to take that first step.

[David Floyd]

I see absolutely nothing wrong to "design" children not to have defects and/or handicaps. Imagine if we could eliminate mental retardation, Down's Syndrome, blindness/deafness, and myriad physical handicaps through medical science? This isn't breeding a "master race", except in the sense of bettering the human race as a whole. Oh, certainly, many/most people and societies wouldn't be able to afford this, but that doesn't mean that those who can afford it, shouldn't do it.

What's more cruel than bringing a deformed/handicapped baby into the world, when you have the power to prevent it?

[rah]

I think most will agree with you on that one, but where do you draw the line? Non-medical related, cosmetic ?

[Kuciwalker]

dp