Designer babies are here.

[Lorizael]

The same argument applied to higher education.

Heh. See the post above yours.

[Ben Kenobi]

Equality of rights by itself does not do enough to ensure equality of opportunity.

Equality of opportunity ! = Equality of outcome.

As for education, we see the results. People are less educated overall then in the 19th century.

[Lorizael]

Equality of opportunity ! = Equality of outcome.

Who said anything about outcome? Equality of opportunity has not yet been attained.

As for education, we see the results. People are less educated overall then in the 19th century.

Uh? I'm too stupid to know how to respond to this.

[Kuciwalker]

Clearly you are. The obvious correct response is to put him on ignore.

[Ben Kenobi]

Who said anything about outcome? Equality of opportunity has not yet been attained.

Anyone can, if they are willing to work at it do well in school.

They all start at the same starting position. Some of them don't have the same abilities, and have to run harder to get to the same place.

Equality of opportunity simply means getting them to the starting position.

[Ben Kenobi]

Uh? I'm too stupid to know how to respond to this.

I was shocked at the difference between a quality education and the normal programs of today, and the 'quality program', would be hardly remarkable even 40 years ago.

Education standards have slipped considerably. Students are graduating who are functionally illiterate.

[rah]

if you think 40 years ago is the 19th century, you can join the club.

[Ben Kenobi]

Considering that my argument is that the drop in standards in just the last 40 years is readily apparent, I don't see how that does anything to counter my argument. If it's apparent in 40 years, what about 120?

How many Polytubbies can write in Ancient Greek and Latin? Those were standard for any student taking a higher education in arts throughout the 19th century.

[rah]

And what percentage of the population in the 19th century got that level of education?
What percentage could read?
I think you'd find the percentage higher today.

But that's ok. Just keep living in BEN land. I'm sure you're happy there.

[Ben Kenobi]

And what percentage of the population in the 19th century got that level of education?

Up here it's around 10 percent with a university degree.

What percentage could read?
I think you'd find the percentage higher today.

By 1870 or so, it was the same as it is now. It was 95 percent in 1870.

[Q Classic]

I wonder if we'll get extra drones if we allow selective breeding to continue.

Nerve stapling.

[Q Classic]

By 1870 or so, it was the same as it is now. It was 95 percent in 1870.

No it wasn't.

http://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp

In the 1870 US, literacy was 80%, give or take, with 89% of whites and 20% of the blacks being literate.

In 1979, rates were 99%.

Of course, it's based on the census and self-reporting.

You know, you could stop making **** up, but that seems like a tall order from you.

As far as Ancient Greek or Latin, what's wrong with Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin Chinese, German, or French? Ancient Greek or Latin is nowhere near as useful when reading many modern educational texts as French, German, or even Russian is, for English speakers. You're picking arbitrary languages as "standards" whilst ignoring the function or necessity of it.

It's no different than saying that modern education is terrible because they no longer make you memorize by rote whole texts written by Ovid--presumably so everyone could sound learned, even if the actual meaning of the words escaped them.

[Ben Kenobi]

You know, you could stop making **** up, but that seems like a tall order from you.

Where, pray tell did I say I was talking about the United States?

[Q Classic]

Anyone can, if they are willing to work at it do well in school.

They all start at the same starting position. Some of them don't have the same abilities, and have to run harder to get to the same place.

Equality of opportunity simply means getting them to the starting position.

Actually, people don't start at the same position. Income and family situation are among the things that immediately come into play: children whose parents display an interest in their education tend to do better when they first start school.

[Ben Kenobi]

As far as Ancient Greek or Latin, what's wrong with Spanish, Japanese, Mandarin Chinese, German, or French?

Nothing at all. I don't know why you feel one ought to be done to the exclusion of the others.

Ancient Greek or Latin is nowhere near as useful when reading many modern educational texts as French, German, or even Russian is, for English speakers. You're picking arbitrary languages as "standards" whilst ignoring the function or necessity of it.

First off, 'modern' is irrelevant. I want to be able to read the source texts rather then relying on the interpretation of folks several hundred years ago. If the folks of today wish to contribute as folks did in the past, then we have to be able to go back and analyse the source documents.

Secondly, when the core of our philosophy and history texts are written in one or the other, they are hardly irrelevant. English has only been predominant for 150 years, any further back, and we have to know latin or greek.

It's no different than saying that modern education is terrible because they no longer make you memorize by rote whole texts written by Ovid--presumably so everyone could sound learned, even if the actual meaning of the words escaped them.

Most folks don't have a clue who Ovid is, let alone being able to actually read the text.

I don't see how progressing in ignorance is a triumph of modern education.