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The left saying force (torture is force) is not effective in compelling testimony is STUPID.
That was not the argument that I was making (see posts 225 and 228 if you're curious)."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
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Originally posted by Drake Tungsten View Post
This is a poor showing, even for you. Still better than Vel, though.
The right saying waterboarding is not torture is STUPID.
I think it can be torture, depending on how it's applied. It's on the borderline.
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Originally posted by Ramo View PostThe left saying force (torture is force) is not effective in compelling testimony is STUPID.
That was not the argument that I was making (see posts 225 and 228 if you're curious).
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Originally posted by Ramo View PostThe left saying force (torture is force) is not effective in compelling testimony is STUPID.
That was not the argument that I was making (see posts 225 and 228 if you're curious).Originally posted by TCO View PostOmar: I haven't read any of your comments. I am lazy about stuff like that. My comment was actually as written, on the general left and the general point.
Wow, this is actually a 5 page thread...and I didn't bother reading it...there could be all kinds of great insights that I missed. Maybe Drake can give me stupid points for just blundering in.
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Originally posted by Drake Tungsten View PostThe right saying waterboarding is not torture is STUPID.
I think it can be torture, depending on how it's applied. It's on the borderline.
Article 1.
1. For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession...
Also of note:
Article 2.
1. Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.
2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.
3. An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.
That pinko commie librul Reagan...
"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
"The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud
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the UN Convention on Torture
I do agree with this definition, though, for the most part...
torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession...
It's not clear that waterboarding is torture under this definition. It really depends on what you consider "mental suffering" and how severe it has to be before it crosses the torture threshold. I'm inclined to think that a practice that journalists will willingly subject themselves to for a story isn't torture on its face, but it could become so if done enough.KH FOR OWNER!
ASHER FOR CEO!!
GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!
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It was ratified by teh Senate (i.e., it has the force of law) 21 Oct 1994.Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
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We don't need to follow no stinkin' treaties. We're 'murka."Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
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Also the Federal Anti-torture spells out what mental pain and suffering means under US law:
(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
(2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality; and
(3) “United States” means the several States of the United States, the District of Columbia, and the commonwealths, territories, and possessions of the United States.
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
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What does that have to do with anything?
Waterboarding is, by all definitions under US and international law, torture. Torture is, likewise, illegal. Can we agree that these are facts?"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
"The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud
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