Americans voted for Change

[DaShi]

Now do you know how ridiculous you sound?

[SlowwHand]

To whom are you speaking? If to me, say it with money.

[Naked Gents Rut]

'extraordinary renditions', were operations to apprehend terrorists abroad, usually without the knowledge of and almost always without public acknowledgment of the host government. ... The first time I proposed a snatch, in 1993, the White House Counsel, Lloyd Cutler, demanded a meeting with the President to explain how it violated international law. Clinton had seemed to be siding with Cutler until Al Gore belatedly joined the meeting, having just flown overnight from South Africa. Clinton recapped the arguments on both sides for Gore: "Lloyd says this. Dick says that. Gore laughed and said, 'That's a no-brainer. Of course it's a violation of international law, that's why it's a covert action. The guy is a terrorist. Go grab his ass.'

Al Gore

[DaShi]

To whom are you speaking? If to me, say it with money.

Aw, you are just too adorable.

[Theben]

Look at the bright side, Drake, we won't be competing with China anymore for title of "World's best torturer."

[SlowwHand]

All blow and no go. Thanks for the substantiation.

[DaShi]

Al Gore

We were denied a great president.

[DaShi]

All blow and no go. Thanks for the substantiation.

To whom are you speaking? If to me, say it with money.

[DaShi]

Seriously, Sloww. You're the guy who makes fun of other's typos because you got no arguement. Now an x-post.

[Elok]

Why the hell would he want to torture anyone, when these past several years have seen a barrage of veteran interrogators writing "it's not just immoral, it's counterproductive and therefore stupid as a means of extracting information" op-eds?

Why did Clinton approve extraordinary rendition? And Bush? And Reagan? The fact that people think they understand effective interrogation techniques because they read an op-ed in the New York Times is incredibly annoying...

Well, given that all the op-eds have been by people with decades of experience in interrogation, and I've never heard of a single such person favoring the practice, it would seem damning to me. Also plain common sense indicates that it wouldn't work too well.

Certainly more impressive than your "if it's moronic and self-defeating, why did the Federal government do it for years" argument...

[Naked Gents Rut]

Look at the bright side, Drake, we won't be competing with China anymore for title of "World's best torturer."

America was never in the running. Waterboarding was the only thing they did that came close to torture and they only did that a handful of times. Amateurs...

[DaShi]

President's are always right!

[Naked Gents Rut]

Well, given that all the op-eds have been by people with decades of experience in interrogation, and I've never heard of a single such person favoring the practice, it would seem damning to me.

So you actually think that a handful of NYT op-eds are enough evidence to make a judgment on one of the most secretive and little-understood aspects of the entire U.S. intelligence apparatus? I only I could be that confident in my uber-analysis skills...

[Elok]

Well, I don't know much biology, but when every respected biologist whose opinion I read says evolution is proven science, I tend to believe it. Same principle here. Anyone with a half a brain can see how torture is problematic not just morally but as a practical means of gathering actionable intelligence--especially from people who may or may not actually be involved in anything shady. And plenty of people with credentials have gone on record affirming that conclusion. Against it we have a heap of threatening intimations that extreme measures have to be taken to defend our liberty and we shouldn't be getting teary-eyed over these people who fly planes into our buildings...everything but a coherent fact-based argument to the contrary. When one position is defended by nothing better than raving BS, I tend to count said BS as a credit towards the other position.

[FrostyBoy]

It's a step in the right direction. Barbarism must come to an end, and someone must lead the way.