Americans voted for Change

[SlowwHand]

To whom are you speaking? If to me, say it with money.

I'll bet you 20 dollars that there's a terrorist attack on U.S. soil within the next year.

[Naked Gents Rut]

Well, I don't know much biology, but when every respected biologist whose opinion I read says evolution is proven science, I tend to believe it.

How the hell do you determine which former CIA interrogators are respected and which aren't? Do you read their peer-reviewed research?

And plenty of people with credentials have gone on record affirming that conclusion.

What do you know about their credentials beyond the little blurb at the end of the op-ed? How do you know there's not a self-selection bias or an ideological bias on the part of the NYT?

everything but a coherent fact-based argument to the contrary. When one position is defended by nothing better than raving BS, I tend to count said BS as a credit towards the other position.

I love how you assume that everything printed in the NYT is "fact-based" (despite the fact that any supporting evidence is classified) while the counter-arguments are "raving BS" (presumably because there's no supporting evidence).

You'd be a better thinker on this issue if you were a little more skeptical and cynical and realized that the arguments on both sides are far closer to "raving BS" than anything "fact-based." The extremely covert nature of extraordinary rendition and enhanced interrogations all but assures that.

[FrostyBoy]

I'll bet you 20 dollars that there's a terrorist attack on U.S. soil within the next year.

I'll take that bet and raise you $80.

[DaShi]

I'll bet you 20 dollars that there's a terrorist attack on U.S. soil within the next year.

Is this adding on to the bets that McCain will win the election, Obama will be assassinated before he ever reaches the white house, and Texas will be recognized as a civilized states and not just a bevy of steers and queers?

[FrostyBoy]

Sorry for my downunder education; but what is a steer?

[Verto]

Sorry for my downunder education; but what is a steer?

[RGBVideo]

Well, given that all the op-eds have been by people with decades of experience in interrogation, and I've never heard of a single such person favoring the practice, it would seem damning to me. Also plain common sense indicates that it wouldn't work too well.

Certainly more impressive than your "if it's moronic and self-defeating, why did the Federal government do it for years" argument...

They are op-eds written in the NY Times. If we make a hypothetical supposition that people who actually work in the business and hence are "experts" think the methods would work, NY Times would not print it, but hire university buffoons with 20-year long careers as academic parasites with no useful function but impressive sounding titles. In this hypothetical of ours, that is.

Drake is right, you're way too naïve. Just because it reads on the newspaper of record doesn't mean that it's true; the owners of the newspaper and it's editors all have their hidden agendas.

[Elok]

1. I don't read the bloody New York Times. I live rather far from New York. Instead I read the WaPo.

2. The little blurb at the end invariably identifies the people in question as veteran interrogators working with one branch or another of the armed forces (not the CIA). I assume that blurb is accurate because impersonating a member of the Army in print is a big no-no.

3. VJ, go away. I have a policy of confronting one ignoramus at a time, and Drake was here first.

[Lorizael]

I guess this means America is going to go back to good old extraordinary rendition, like in the Clinton years. Sucks for the terrorists who are going to get their fingernails pulled out in Egypt rather than being sleep deprived by the CIA in Romania, but Obama had to throw his base a bone.

While I'm kind of against torture (and also think, from material I've read on the subject, that it's not very effective), I have to agree with Drake here that this is all Obama's proclamation really means. We may stop doing it in front of cameras, but it would be naive to believe we're not going to keep doing it behind closed doors.

[onodera]

Why do they breed them with horns that long? Are they compensating for something?

[Dinner]

Obama has also lifted Bush's restrictions on stem cell research.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/8c9243f6-e924-11dd-9535-0000779fd2ac,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2F8c9243f6-e924-11dd-9535-0000779fd2ac.html%3Fnclick_check%3D1&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2Fdiscuss%2Fduboard.php%3Faz%3Dview_all%26address%3D102x3702912&nclick_check=1

[Sprayber]

It's a step in the right direction. Barbarism must come to an end, and someone must lead the way.

I find your optimism very cute.

[Dinner]

Oh, and I thought it was also a good move that Obama has removed several road blocks Bush set up to prevent people from getting access to government documents under the Freedom of Information Act. Having a more transparent government is always good and hearing Rush whine and try to spin this as negative was just hilarious.

[RGBVideo]

1. I don't read the bloody New York Times. I live rather far from New York. Instead I read the WaPo.

You jumped in about an argument over an unnamed article in NYT. It doesn't matter, because I was talking about newspapers in general wrt. to their hidden agendas. Newspapers only bring attention to op-eds which re-inforce their selected agenda. This was my only point. Are you questioning this?

3. VJ, go away. I have a policy of confronting one ignoramus at a time, and Drake was here first.

you're only trying to turn this personal because you're unsure about your own reasoning

[Elok]

No, I'm not at all unsure, I just don't want to deal with you. You're consistently obnoxious, and I'm not going to put up with you in order to score points for perceived open-mindedness (that being the usual reason for suffering idiocy on this site). Go away.