Americans voted for Change

[Elok]

The little blurb at the end invariably identifies the people in question as veteran interrogators working with one branch or another of the armed forces (not the CIA).

So "veteran" interrogators who weren't even involved in the CIA interrogation program are the source for your definitive judgment on the efficacy of enhanced interrogation techniques?

What are you, stupid? The Army is up to its neck in this business. Remember Lynndie England?

[Dinner]

Today Obama ended Bush's restrictions on tax dollars being used for family planning. That means once again real family planning can be conducted by aid agencies including talking about condoms or if necissary abortions. Obama has made good on so many campaign promises in the last few days.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99831044

[Naked Gents Rut]

The Army is up to its neck in this business.

No, they aren't. Members of the Army aren't allowed to administer interrogations that exceed the guidelines laid out in the Army Field Manual, for obvious reasons.

[fed1943]

Memories...:
Years ago,before I was retired, I was called to a meeting with several Americans.

As I agreed with all their goals, but not with the ways to achieve them, I said
something like you have always been a democracy, remember that and you
will win, forget that and you will lose.

When some said I was been sentimental, I answered I do not mean "moral
victory" but a very effective one to put enemy power to zero and to double our own.

Later, the Soviet people and several communist parties overthrew communism.

Can you think about a greater victory?

Strength and courage, with honesty and transparency, while always being
true to our own principles, is the key.

Best regards,

[Lancer]

Today Obama ended Bush's restrictions on tax dollars being used for family planning. That means once again real family planning can be conducted by aid agencies including talking about condoms or if necissary abortions. Obama has made good on so many campaign promises in the last few days.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=99831044

This is why I voted for McCain. In my view the government is now using my tax dollars to kill people. This really bothers me. I feel like I'm living in Nazi Germany and my reichmarks are going for extermination camps.

[Elok]

The Army is up to its neck in this business.

No, they aren't. Members of the Army aren't allowed to administer interrogations that exceed the guidelines laid out in the Army Field Manual, for obvious reasons.

And they know nothing of interrogation, and nothing of the results of the CIA's exciting new style, huh?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

This is why I voted for McCain. In my view the government is now using my tax dollars to kill people. This really bothers me. I feel like I'm living in Nazi Germany and my reichmarks are going for extermination camps.

but are you able to help the millions of non-aborted to actually live once born? ie not die in infancy, be crippled for short life with AIDS, be abandoned as you were result of war rape (add numerous other reasons here etc... )... i cannot claim to know what kind of advices will be given, but I hardly doubt that abortion will be advised... it will most likely be as a last case option, in worst cases...

[Naked Gents Rut]

If only people on Poly could discuss the issue of torture as sensibly as Robert Kaplan...

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200901u/kaplan-torture

[Elok]

Talking sensibly about torture:

If we act like angels, and another, even more massive attack occurs in the United States, then the public might cry for blood, as it did to an extent in the immediate days and weeks after 9/11, when torture was occasionally spoken of in different terms than it is now. Remember that some Bush Administration policies were drawn up in the context of one public mood, and carried out in the context of another. Were that to happen, detainees’ rights might decline by, say, 50 percent. But if we push the envelope only 15 percent along that dangerous path, then we might avoid the 50 percent trap, and save many of our own lives.

You have got to be ****ing kidding me. "If we don't torture them a little now, the public might make us torture them a lot later, so we'd better torture a little, to be kind!" Also, howTF do you quantify percentages of brutality? Should we twist the thumb-screws a certain percentage of the breaking point, so that only microfractures result?

Also, note that he endorses spreading scary rumors and describes how they might be effective. That's not torture by anyone's definition that I know of. Also "rough treatment" and "grim conditions," but he doesn't say what exactly those constitute so it's hard to judge that.

[Theben]

When, if ever, did the public cry out for torturing people to soothe the pain of 9/11!?

[Grandpa Troll]

President Obama settling in like a good old boy sooner than I thought

Just a couple of nights ago, we heaped praise on the new president for announcing what he called a new era of openness, where in his administration, transparency would rule the day.

And the lobbyists that he was so critical of during the campaign? Well, he told us they will now face even tougher new restrictions.

President Obama: "The executive order on ethics I will sign shortly represents a clean break from business as usual. As of today, lobbyists will be subject to stricter limits than under any other administration in history. If you are a lobbyist entering my administration, you will not be able to work on matters you lobbied on, or in the agencies you lobbied during the previous two years. When you leave government, you will not be able to lobby my administration for as long as I am president."

That's what he said two days ago. But as we first told you Thursday, and sadly we are learning more about this Friday, President Obama already wants an exception to his own rule.

You see, what happened is, there is this former lobbyist for a big defense contractor called Raytheon. His name is William Lynn.

President Obama wants him to be deputy defense secretary. So, the Obama administration wants a waiver to its own rule.

That basically means they are saying, we will mostly put tough new restrictions on lobbyists, except when we won't.

Really? Is this how it is going to be?


Please, please don't make us all any more cynical than we already are, Mr. President.

WTF?

Ok, sheeple, ewe see the start of how it all works dont you?

[Lancer]

but are you able to help the millions of non-aborted to actually live once born? ie not die in infancy, be crippled for short life with AIDS, be abandoned as you were result of war rape (add numerous other reasons here etc... )... i cannot claim to know what kind of advices will be given, but I hardly doubt that abortion will be advised... it will most likely be as a last case option, in worst cases...

If the rest of the country wants to go on a killing spree that's something about which I can do nothing since Obama won a majority this is what the peoiple want. I just don't want to be a part of it and by using my taxes I'm being forced into it. Using the German comparison again, its as if a majority of Germans voted for the guy who proudly proclaimed he was going to set up gas chambers and a few people like myself were left wondering wtf do I do now?


I got one more summer working season in the US and then God willing I'm done, and that is some consolation.

[Thorn]

Why don't we just torture fetuses then we solve both problems

[Bosh]

I guess this means America is going to go back to good old extraordinary rendition, like in the Clinton years. Sucks for the terrorists who are going to get their fingernails pulled out in Egypt rather than being sleep deprived by the CIA in Romania, but Obama had to throw his base a bone.

From the ****ing article.

Barack Obama embarked on the wholesale deconstruction of George Bush's war on terror, shutting down the CIA's secret prison network, banning torture and rendition

Relevant bit bolded because reading is HARD.

In my view the government is now using my tax dollars to kill people. This really bothers me.

Not exactly. Unless I am mistaken what Obama did was allow US government money to go to groups that are involved in abortion (previously if you were engaged in abortion, however tangentially, such as referring people to abortion docs you didn't get any aid money) but it doesn't allow any money given by the US government to be used to fund abortions.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

If the rest of the country wants to go on a killing spree that's something about which I can do nothing since Obama won a majority this is what the peoiple want. I just don't want to be a part of it and by using my taxes I'm being forced into it.

Where have I heard this before...