Canada's Opposition Parties Vow to Bring Down Government, 1 month into its term...

[Asher]

Originally posted by Victor Galis

And yes, the timing is just awful, it would have been better to have replaced Dion before this all happened, but Stephen Harper thought that it was more important to cut public financing for campaigns than it was to deal with the economy.

What the ****?

Why do we need to touch the economy right now?

Is everyone else in some kind of ****ing bizarro world? The GDP is still growing, we're NOT in a recession, and unemployment levels are still below the 10-year average (significantly).

We do NOT need to action the economy right now, it would NOT be prudent NOR intelligent to do so.

Seriously, where is everyone? Mars?

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Asher


People must be idiots not to have given Harper a majority. This is just proving it.

Look at the ****ing plan in the coalition bill. It's absurd! We're not even in a recession and they want to spend us into record-setting deficits. What the ****.

Fiscal stimulus takes many months to kick in. The best timing is right before a recession. Unfortunately, that requires some knowledge about the nature of the coming recession. Somehow I doubt that plan is that visionary.

[Wezil]

Harper doesn't have what it takes to win a majority. He has proven this twice now. He couldn't win majority against Adscam Martin nor Dion. It just doesn't get any easier than that. Harper is politically toxic to too many people. This latest debacle shows why.

How long will the Conservative backbench wait until they call for new leadership? If this coalition happens many conservatives will be sent to the opposition benchs before they are done unpacking. They can't be happy this was sparked by the leadership.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Victor Galis


Fiscal stimulus takes many months to kick in. The best timing is right before a recession. Unfortunately, that requires some knowledge about the nature of the coming recession. Somehow I doubt that plan is that visionary.

It makes no sense. We don't need it right now and we don't know what Obama is doing.

It would be far worse to spend without thinking now than to see how it develops, then make a response.

This has already been discussed to death, but I'm just pointing out the point that he should be "doing something about the economy" is just rhetoric that formed the excuse for the Liberals and NDP to seize power, something they've apparently been planning for a long time before Harper said or did anything (judging from Layton's comments).

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Asher


What the ****?

Why do we need to touch the economy right now?

Is everyone else in some kind of ****ing bizarro world? The GDP is still growing, we're NOT in a recession, and unemployment levels are still below the 10-year average (significantly).

We do NOT need to action the economy right now, it would NOT be prudent NOR intelligent to do so.

Seriously, where is everyone? Mars?

Our largest export markets are taking an economic dive, and natural resources are selling for a fraction of what they were before. It's like one of those cartoons where Wil E. Coyote has run off the cliff, but isn't falling because he hasn't looked down yet.

If you wait to stimulate when times are already bad, it's too late.

(That being said, I'm sure any plan will spend money the wrong way.)

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Asher
(judging from Layton's comments).

and there it is.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
Our largest export markets are taking an economic dive, and natural resources are selling for a fraction of what they were before. It's like one of those cartoons where Wil E. Coyote has run off the cliff, but isn't falling because he hasn't looked down yet.

If you wait to stimulate when times are already bad, it's too late.

(That being said, I'm sure any plan will spend money the wrong way.)

You can fearmonger all you want, but the economy right now is NOT in the tank even though the Liberals have spent the last three months trying to convince us it was. It seems you and Oncle Boris bought into it. Congratulations.

You correctly point out that it's externalities that are hurting us right now, yet another reason massive internal spending isn't the wisest course of action before we find out what those external actors are behaving (eg, Obama's actions).

[Sharpe]

Given what is happening and Harper's behaviour and tactics - the people must have known that the smart thing was NOT giving Harper and the Conservatives a majority.

Oh I've also read the Globe and Star comments, columnists and editorials. They are not overwhelming negative and actually are fairly evenly split between supporting and opposing Harper (Star is more opposing, Globe is slightly more supporting).

The National Post on the other hand - are overwhelmingly negative - very much so, so much so they want to fire the columnist that opposed Harper (assuming they don't lynch him first )

As for record setting deficits - that's unlikely. Without an inflationary adjustment the highest deficit was about 45-50 billion - can't remember if that was during the latter Trudeau-Turner era or the Mulroney one (think it is the latter). It is also a reminder that it was the Liberals that got Canada out of deficit and into large surpluses. So talk of record deficits is at best premature and probably unlikely.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Sharpe
Given what is happening and Harper's behaviour and tactics - the people must have known that the smart thing was NOT giving Harper and the Conservatives a majority.

Oh I've also read the Globe and Star comments, columnists and editorials. They are not overwhelming negative and actually are fairly evenly split between supporting and opposing Harper (Star is more opposing, Globe is slightly more supporting).

I suggest you read the comments again...especially on the Globe. I can't see the Star comments now so I'm not sure why you can.

As for record setting deficits - that's unlikely. Without an inflationary adjustment the highest deficit was about 45-50 billion - can't remember if that was during the latter Trudeau-Turner era or the Mulroney one (think it is the latter). It is also a reminder that it was the Liberals that got Canada out of deficit and into large surpluses. So talk of record deficits is at best premature and probably unlikely.

They're throwing a $30B spending bill out there was government revenues are falling and costs in Afghanistan are rising...why would you say it's unlikely?

[Wezil]

$45 - 50B?

That would be Mulroney deficits. Wilson promised us lower deficits every year and still managed to have the number grow throughout the course of their government. Economic conservatives they were not.

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Asher


You can fearmonger all you want, but the economy right now is NOT in the tank even though the Liberals have spent the last three months trying to convince us it was. It seems you and Oncle Boris bought into it. Congratulations.

I bought nothing, you have to remember I'm not exactly exposed to either side's propaganda.

You correctly point out that it's externalities that are hurting us right now, yet another reason massive internal spending isn't the wisest course of action before we find out what those external actors are behaving (eg, Obama's actions).

Nothing Obama does will kick in massively right away. And I agree with you that massive stimulus might be a terrible idea. I disagree that internal spending is wrong. Just because certain things are being exported right now doesn't mean internal demand for them couldn't be increased.

The best thing to do now would be to think long-term, encourage firms not to slash R&D budgets, figure out if there is underfunding in infrastructure, etc. Of course the Lib + NDP stimulus will focus on the wrong things because it involves the left fringe The real question is is it better than doing nothing? That's hard to answer at this point.

[Wezil]

CTV is saying Dion will go to the GG on Monday.

Liberal Leader Stephane Dion will inform the Governor General Monday that he has enough parliamentary support to form a new government if the Tories fall.

The opposition plans to take down the government with a confidence vote next Monday.

The announcement comes only hours after the three Liberal leadership contenders said they would support Dion as the leader of a new government coalition with the NDP and the Bloc Quebecois.

Speaking outside of the Liberal caucus meeting, Dominic LeBlanc, standing shoulder to shoulder with Bob Rae and Michael Ignatieff, said they all back the deal forged with the NDP.

"The accord that was presented to us received unanimous support and the other issue which is very important is we decided the only person and the best person to lead and form a coalition government is the elected leader of our party, the leader of the opposition Stephane Dion," LeBlanc said.

Ignatieff echoed his words, saying the coalition deal is economically responsible, preserves Liberal ideals and upholds Dion as party leader until May, when a leadership convention will be held.

"We are at one, the three of us, that the only person who can lead the party is the duly elected leader of the party Mr. Stephane Dion," Ignatieff said.

Rae described the meeting as historic, positive, upbeat and moving.

Earlier Monday the candidates met with Dion, who presented them with the draft agreement that has been negotiated with the New Democrats and the Bloc Quebecois, who would support the coalition from outside of government.

"They agreed that the terms were good, and they went to the Liberal caucus, where we are told they unanimously said they support Mr. Dion in being the leader," said CTV's Mike Duffy.
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(history of the conflict deleted)

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081130/conservative_budget_081201/20081201?hub=TopStories

I expect something public from the C's soon now that things seem to be coming together on the other side.

[Fake Boris]

So Dion is becoming PM!

[Wezil]

Unless the Conservatives can put off the vote in hopes this coalition falls apart in the meantime.

[Fake Boris]

Well, if Rae, Ignatieff and Leblanc appeared together, it sounds like it's a done deal.