Canada's Opposition Parties Vow to Bring Down Government, 1 month into its term...

[embalmer42]

Originally posted by Wezil


Never to the best of my knowledge. Unusual doesn't mean it isn't allowed.

edit - It has happened provincially - Look to Miller winning most seats but Rae and Peterson governing.

Ah yes, how could I have forgotten Mr Peterson?

[embalmer42]

Originally posted by Sharpe


1925 Federal Election

Conservatives 115 seats
Liberals 100
Progressives 22

and yet King the leader of the Liberals (who had been PM from 1921-25) formed an alliance with the Progressives to retain power as the Prime Minister. (Also King lost his seat and got one of his Liberals to resign their seat and won that one in an by-election).

King only managed to hold onto power for about a year, when his government got into a scandal.

Anticipating a defeat in the Commons - King asked the Governor General, Baron Byng, to call an election. The Governor General refused, and King resigned. Then Byng asked the Conservative leader to form a government - it lasted only 3 days then was defeated, which led to an election.

This is the "Byng precedent" that may result in an election not being called if the Conservatives are defeated if there is another party that can try to win the confidence of the House of Commons to become the government.

Thanks.

[embalmer42]

Originally posted by Wezil
If we can take partisan politics out of the discussion for a moment...

The article Asher posted reveals an interesting dilemma for the Liberals. Who leads them?

Dion was trashed in the vote and has little personal credibility.
Rae is unacceptable to the NDP (period).
Ignatieff is the leadership frontrunner however placing him in charge will virtually gaurantee he wins the Lib leadership nomination in May (hence not acceptable to Rae).

Rae claims he wants the caucus to decide which strikes me as strange since the caucus overwhelmingly supports Iggy (50 of 70+ members is the number I heard).

Unless Rae would assume/hope that Iggy would prove himself so inept at dealing with leadership in a "crisis" situation that he would effectively fubar humself before the leadership contest, making Rae the only other possible choice (although I do recall how Rae dealt with things when he was leader in Ontario during the last economic downturn....)?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Wezil


Never to the best of my knowledge. Unusual doesn't mean it isn't allowed.

edit - It has happened provincially - Look to Miller winning most seats but Rae and Peterson governing.

In reading up yesterday, I ran across mention that Miller invited Peterson to try.

At first I thought it would be farily cut and dry. The GG would agree and allow a coalition. I'm coming to think that may not be the case.

In any event, brighter bulbs in the Liberal caucus are seeing the downside, so this will all amount to idle speculation.

I'm afraid you'll just have to grin and bear it, Wezil. You'll be stuck with Harper for a time.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by notyoueither


I'm afraid you'll just have to grin and bear it, Wezil. You'll be stuck with Harper for a time.

We'll see how serious the threat is by Harper's actions this week. He took it quite seriously on Friday by cancelling today's Opposition day and the spectacle of "I won't back down" Flaherty spending the entire weekend backing down...

If Harper prorogues Parliament this week the threat is serious.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by embalmer42



Unless Rae would assume/hope that Iggy would prove himself so inept at dealing with leadership in a "crisis" situation that he would effectively fubar humself before the leadership contest, making Rae the only other possible choice (although I do recall how Rae dealt with things when he was leader in Ontario during the last economic downturn....)?

Yes, the "poison chalice" Iggy is afraid of.

Under this scenario Mr. Rae could be forced to wait some time before gaining leadership of the party and even longer to be PM (as this scenario presumes the Libs get crushed in the next vote).

If I were a Lib I'd have Dion stay at the helm until a (moved up) leadership convention can pick a new leader to go forward.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Wezil




We'll see how serious the threat is by Harper's actions this week. He took it quite seriously on Friday by cancelling today's Opposition day and the spectacle of "I won't back down" Flaherty spending the entire weekend backing down...

If Harper prorogues Parliament this week the threat is serious.

He may prorogue regardless. Give everyone a break to cool off and allow time for public reaction to the idea to become known.

[Wezil]

The GG has to sign off on that as well.

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Asher

Not if they are not part of the coalition.

It'd be a crime against democracy and ignore the voters' mandate to remove the party with the most votes from the government they JUST earned a month ago and replace them with a loose coalition we all know will collapse with a combined FEWER votes than the party who won the election.

Undemocratic is the best word for it, pathetic is also apt.

Conservatives got 36.3% of the vote. Libs + NDP got 47.7%. I'd say the only thing undemocratic is that the Conservatives have more seats than the Libs + NDP despite getting almost 11% less votes.

You might argue that this is how our system works, but if so, stop using the word "undemocratic" to describe attempts to bring down the government.

Just as a side question (since your political memory is much better then mine ): when was the last coalition government which did not include the party that had won the most seats?

I'm not that familiar with the history of Canadian coalitions, but in Romania the answer would be: Every center-right coalition that has formed since communism fell. At some point the country was ruled by a minority government of the second largest party after its coalition fell apart and no one wanted an election. Not at all relevant to Canadian politics, but still somewhat entertaining to watch from a distance.

In any event, brighter bulbs in the Liberal caucus are seeing the downside, so this will all amount to idle speculation.

I'm afraid you'll just have to grin and bear it, Wezil. You'll be stuck with Harper for a time.

If they were really bright, they'd keep the threat alive to keep Harper in line while never actually making good on it.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
Conservatives got 36.3% of the vote. Libs + NDP got 47.7%. I'd say the only thing undemocratic is that the Conservatives have more seats than the Libs + NDP despite getting almost 11% less votes.

You might argue that this is how our system works, but if so, stop using the word "undemocratic" to describe attempts to bring down the government.

The entire system is undemocratic, but it is our democratic system. Attempts to thwart that by bypassing the process of the people choosing the ruling party, as per our rules, is exceptionally undemocratic.

I'd be in favour of PR myself.

It's interesting that back when I *****ed about the stupidity of having majority governments with 37% of the vote, the Liberals on this board didn't care. Suddenly when the shoe is on the other foot, they're up for change...

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Asher

The entire system is undemocratic, but it is our democratic system. Attempts to thwart that by bypassing the process of the people choosing the ruling party, as per our rules, is exceptionally undemocratic.

Were you against it when Harper was proposing the same?

Shall we see what your posts at the time say?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Wezil


Were you against it when Harper was proposing the same?

Shall we see what your posts at the time say?

Go for it. I actually was not a fan of Harper at all until a couple years ago after the gay marriage thing was put to rest.

[Wezil]

Is that a "yes" to the first question?

If I had time I'd look.

[Asher]

I don't even recall if I posted about it.

At the time I was in the "they all ****ing suck, I'm not voting or caring" phase.

Just, in general...I've been very vocal on political reform in Canada before -- from the equalization scam to the senate to how the Prime Minister is obscenely powerful to the ridiculousness of the GG...

[Wezil]

Yes, I have seen your stance on these issues. We often agree.