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  • Ontario gets just a little more big brother

    "Modest restrictions" coming to young drivers. Father of a teenager who drove ****ing drunk off a cliff with friends in his car because he was a **** parent is responsible. Rejoice.



    New rules too harsh, young drivers say

    Proposed Ontario legislation to limit the driving privileges of people under age 22 is experiencing backlash from young drivers before the bill is even tabled.

    Premier Dalton McGuinty said Tuesday the "modest restrictions" will include a zero blood-alcohol limit for all Ontario drivers aged 21 and under and escalating sanctions for young drivers who speed, starting with a 30-day licence suspension.

    Drivers between 16 and 19 will also be limited to having only one teenage passenger in the vehicle, which McGuinty conceded will mean three 19-year-old adults could not go to a movie – or church – in the same car.

    "Perhaps the most precious thing we have in society is our children, and that includes our older children," McGuinty said.

    "We owe it to our kids to take the kinds of measures that ensure that they will grow up safe and sound and secure, and if that means a modest restriction on their freedoms until they reach the age of 22, then as a dad, I'm more than prepared to do that."

    The legislation is set to be tabled Tuesday afternoon, and already several online Facebook groups have sprung up protesting the proposed law.

    More than 1,000 people have joined the groups and while some are in favour of the legislation, many disagree, especially with the passenger rules.

    Teens are posting comments suggesting the law will discourage carpooling and having designated drivers.

    "How does it make sense to try and teach us about saving gas by carpooling and buying hybrids and things such as that when it is illegal for teenagers to carpool if this passes?" one person wrote.

    Another wrote that the law would "encourage drunk driving!"

    "We would need more cars which means more designated drivers. My friends already don't want this job!"

    Progressive Conservative Leader John Tory said he likes the idea of new rules for younger drivers, but worries the restrictions on teenage passengers could be unworkable, especially in rural Ontario.

    "We want to protect public safety and have stricter conditions under which young people can drive cars, but we have to be careful of the practicalities of living," Tory said.

    "In rural Ontario sometimes if you're going to a hockey game, a movie or just going to school ... we have to be careful that we don't do things that are impractical."
    The more ridiculous aspects are this:

    - The restriction on how many second year university students can be in a car together. What the ****, seriously?
    - "zero tolerance" on speeding with immediate license suspension in a province which intentionally sets speed limits well below the flow of traffic means that for going with the flow of traffic on a main road, you can lose your license on the whim of an arrogant cop who hates you damn kids
    - The restriction on how many teenagers can be in the car means that there will be MORE CARS on the road in an already insanely congested roadways and MORE POLLUTION in a smoggy hellhole of a city.

    This comes a year after their "if you are 50 over the speed limit, you are racing and lose your license on the spot and get fined $10000" law, even though the average car on the 400-series roads goes 30 above the limit already, so in reality if you go about 20 km/h too fast you can have your license revoked and a hefty fine.

    This province is out of ****ing control.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

  • #2
    In ILLinois, first year drivers are also limited to how many other youngsters they can have in the car with them. They claim it has saved lives but any research i've seen wasn't conclusive.

    To some extent I can agree with this rule since having a first year driver trying to concentrate with a 6 other kids in the car can lead to dangerous condititions.

    But it comes down to individual capabilities. Some are quite responsible and having a couple of kids with them would present no problems.

    So do you penalize all to save a few lives. I think restricting first year drivers is ok and the restriction should quickly be reduced as they acquire more experience.
    It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
    RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

    Comment


    • #3
      Here the details of the graduated law in Illinois for those that are bored.



      SERVICES PROGRAMS PRESS PUBLICATIONS DEPARTMENTS CONTACT

      Rules of the Road

      CHAPTER 3: GRADUATED DRIVER LICENSING PROGRAM



      Illinois’ Graduated Driver Licensing (GDL) Program consists of three progressive stages of driving for drivers ages 15-20. New laws effective Jan. 1, 2008, further enhance the program. Under the new provisions, young drivers must earn the right to move from one phase to the next based on their driving behavior. Each phase of the GDL process sets forth specific guidelines for teen drivers operating a motor vehicle.

      Permit Phase — Drivers Age 15 | Initial Licensing Phase — Drivers Ages 16-17 | Full Licensing Phase — Drivers Ages 18-20 | Parental Consent | Parent-Teen Driving Contract | Other New Related Laws


      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



      Permit Phase – Drivers Age 15

      Parent/legal guardian consent required to obtain an instruction permit.
      Must be enrolled in an approved driver education course, and must pass vision and written tests.
      Nighttime driving restrictions – Sunday-Thursday, 10 p.m.–6 a.m.; Friday-Saturday, 11 p.m.–6 a.m. (local curfews may differ).
      Permit must be held for a minimum of nine months.
      Must practice driving a minimum of 50 hours, including 10 hours at night, supervised by a parent or adult age 21 or older with a valid driver’s license.
      Must not acquire any driving convictions during the nine-month permit phase.
      Number of passengers limited to one in the front seat and the number of safety belts in the back seat.
      All occupants under age 19 must wear safety belts.
      Cell phone use while driving is prohibited for drivers under age 19, except in the case of an emergency to contact a law enforcement agency, health care provider or emergency services agency.
      Permit is valid for up to two years.
      Sanctions

      To obtain court supervision for a traffic violation, a driver must appear in court with a parent/legal guardian and also must attend traffic safety school. Limit one court supervision for serious driving offenses.
      A moving violation conviction results in a nine-month waiting period before applying for a driver’s license.
      Not eligible for any hardship permit.
      Anyone caught driving without a permit is ineligible to obtain a driver’s license until age 18.
      Back to Top


      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Initial Licensing Phase – Drivers Ages 16-17

      Parent/legal guardian must certify that a minimum of 50 hours of practice driving, including 10 hours at night, has been completed.
      Parent/legal guardian must accompany teen to provide written consent to obtain a driver’s license, OR complete and notarize an Affidavit/Consent for Minor to Drive form.
      Must have completed a state-approved driver education course.
      Nighttime driving restrictions – Sunday-Thursday, 10 p.m.–6 a.m.; Friday-Saturday, 11 p.m.–6 a.m. (local curfews may differ).
      Must maintain a conviction-free driving record for six months prior to turning 18 before moving to the Full Licensing Phase. A traffic conviction during the Initial Licensing Phase may extend restrictions beyond age 18.
      All occupants under age 19 must wear safety belts.
      For the first 12 months of licensing, or until the driver turns 18, whichever occurs first, the number of passengers is limited to one person under age 20, unless the passenger( s) is a sibling, stepsibling, child or stepchild of the driver. After this period, the number of passengers is limited to one in the front seat and the number of safety belts in the back seat.
      Cell phone use while driving is prohibited for drivers under age 19, except in the case of an emergency to contact a law enforcement agency, health care provider or emergency services agency.
      Sanctions


      To obtain court supervision for a traffic violation, a driver must appear in court with a parent/legal guardian and also must attend traffic safety school. Limit one court supervision for serious driving offenses.
      A moving violation conviction before age 18 generates a Secretary of State warning letter to the parent and teenager.
      A moving violation conviction that occurs within the first year of licensing will result in a six-month extension of the passenger limitation, which allows only one unrelated passenger under age 20.
      Two moving violation convictions occurring within a 24-month period results in a minimum one-month driver’s license suspension. Suspension length is determined by the seriousness of the offenses and the driver’s prior driving history. An additional driver’s license suspension will result for each subsequent moving violation following the initial suspension.
      Suspended drivers must attend a remedial education course, may be retested and must pay a $70 reinstatement fee.
      Back to Top


      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Full Licensing Phase – Drivers Ages 18-20

      No age-related restrictions apply except in cases where a driver fails to move from the Initial Licensing Phase to the Full Licensing Phase.
      Cell phone use while driving is prohibited for drivers under age 19, except in the case of an emergency to contact a law enforcement agency, health care provider or emergency services agency.
      Sanctions


      Limit one court supervision for serious driving offenses.
      Two moving violation convictions occurring within a 24-month period results in a minimum one-month driver’s license suspension. Suspension length is determined by the seriousness of the offenses and the driver’s prior driving history. An additional driver’s license suspension will result for each subsequent moving violation following the initial suspension.
      Suspended drivers are required to pay a $70 reinstatement fee.
      Back to Top


      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Parental Consent

      Drivers ages 16 and 17 must have parent/legal guardian consent in order to obtain a driver’s license. The parent/legal guardian must provide written consent at the time of the minor’s application at a Driver Services facility. The parent/legal guardian also must show proof that the applicant has had at least 50 hours of practice driving, including 10 hours at night, during the Permit Phase.

      A parent/legal guardian may revoke consent for the minor to hold a driver’s license at any time, for any reason until the driver turns 18 by contacting the Secretary of State’s office. Driving privileges will not be reinstated until the parent/legal guardian who withdrew consent once again provides consent or until the driver turns 18, whichever occurs first. The teen driver must reapply for a driver’s license and pay the appropriate fees in order for the license to be reinstated.

      Back to Top


      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Parent-Teen Driving Contract

      When it comes to learning the rules of the road, communication between parents and teens is very important. The Secretary of State has created a Parent-Teen Driving Contract that establishes parameters and boundaries between parents and teens to enable young drivers to acquire safe driving habits and skills. Download the Parent-Teen Driving Contract.

      Back to Top


      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      Other New Related Laws

      Parental Access to Teen’s Driving Record
      Effective Jan. 1, 2008, the parent/legal guardian of a person under age 18 who holds an instruction permit or graduated driver’s license may access the minor’s driving record free online. Parental Access to Teen Driving Records

      Driver’s License Suspension for Alcohol Consumption
      Effective Jan. 1, 2008, a person under age 21 will receive a three-month driver’s license suspension for a court supervision for possession, consumption, purchase or receipt of alcohol. A conviction will result in a one-year suspension of driving privileges.

      Truancy
      An unmarried person under age 18 may have his/her driver’s license cancelled or be refused a driver’s license or instruction permit by the Secretary of State’s office for failing to maintain school attendance.

      Back to Top


      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



      Chapter Three Study Questions
      1. During the Initial Licensing Phase, a teen driver is allowed only two passengers under age 20 in the vehicle during the first 12 months of licensing.
      True or False

      2. A minor driver must attend a traffic safety course or remedial traffic education in order to obtain court supervision for a traffic violation.
      True or False

      3. A parent or legal guardian may request that the driver’s license of a minor be cancelled at any time prior to age 18.
      True or False
      Answers to Study Questions



      << Previous Chapter | Table of Contents | Next Chapter >>

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      This edition of the Illinois Rules of the Road is as accurate as possible at the time of publication. The manual gives drivers information on obtaining a driver’s license, driver’s license laws, traffic safety issues and general information regarding Illinois traffic laws and ordinances. The language of the Illinois Compiled Statutes is condensed and paraphrased and does not cover every law or explain every possible situation that motorists may face while operating a motor vehicle. The manual also provides highway safety information not in the law. It is intended as a tool for drivers and should not be cited as a legal authority in court.
      It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
      RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rah
        In ILLinois, first year drivers are also limited to how many other youngsters they can have in the car with them. They claim it has saved lives but any research i've seen wasn't conclusive.

        To some extent I can agree with this rule since having a first year driver trying to concentrate with a 6 other kids in the car can lead to dangerous condititions.
        It's not first year drivers. It's "drivers aged 16-19". You could be in 2nd year of university with 3 years of extensive driving experience and still limited by it.

        It's age discrimination, purely. At the VERY LEAST, it should be based on experience level and not age. 3/4 years is also absurdly long for the restriction.
        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

        Comment


        • #5
          "Perhaps the most precious thing we have in society is our children, and that includes our older children," McGuinty said.
          19-year-old adults are also children? That's going to make a lot of people pedophiles...
          Tutto nel mondo è burla

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Asher

            It's not first year drivers. It's "drivers aged 16-19". You could be in 2nd year of university with 3 years of extensive driving experience and still limited by it.

            It's age discrimination, purely. At the VERY LEAST, it should be based on experience level and not age. 3/4 years is also absurdly long for the restriction.
            That's why I posted the actual law, so you could see that while similar it's graduated which makes it more reasonable. In one place it says first 12 months or aged 18, whichever comes first.

            I agree with the more graduated approach.
            It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
            RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Boris Godunov


              19-year-old adults are also children? That's going to make a lot of people pedophiles...
              McGuinty is a tool. He's now my most hated politician. He's slowly increasing the role of government in everyday life while at the same time acting like a separatist fool federally.
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

              Comment


              • #8
                See, you ARE a totalitarian state!
                1011 1100
                Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Elok
                  See, you ARE a totalitarian state!
                  Province.

                  Back in my province I got my learners permit at 14 and full on license at 16.

                  But we are MEN in Alberta compared to the BOYS in Ontario.

                  Ontario is the province who, until very recently, needed an extra grade ("grade 13") in an effort to make their populace less stupid. It failed.
                  "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                  Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Drivers between 16 and 19 will also be limited to having only one teenage passenger in the vehicle.
                    So when teens need to drive to a party, it's now required that twice of many of them be behind the wheel...
                    Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
                    RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      and they'll need to be talking on more cell phones to keep in contact.

                      The Illinois version isn't that bad.
                      It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                      RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by -Jrabbit

                        So when teens need to drive to a party, it's now required that twice of many of them be behind the wheel...
                        Yeah -- it makes it FAR harder to have a proper designated driver as well. Now they're asking half of the people driving to a party to stay sober. Give me a break.

                        I wouldn't be surprised to see this raise teenage fatalities.
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Is there statistical evidence that these sorts of restrictions (I'm including the less draconian US versions of young driver restrictions too) have a significant impact on accident rates (and/or injury/death rates)?

                          ...

                          Anecdotally, I was a nutjob teenage (and early 20s) driver. I did insane things with friends in my car. I did insane things alone. Granted, said insane things were more likely to hurt more people if I had passengers. But passengers didn't make me any nuttier. Sometimes, in fact, passengers moderated my driving habits (passengers don't always like it when the driver is psychotic).

                          -Arrian
                          grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                          The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Asher


                            Yeah -- it makes it FAR harder to have a proper designated driver as well. Now they're asking half of the people driving to a party to stay sober. Give me a break.

                            I wouldn't be surprised to see this raise teenage fatalities.
                            Well in Illinois if they're under 21 it's illegal to drink anyway so a desiginated driver really shouldn't be necessary.

                            And for more big brother stuff, technically if you get caught drinking under-aged in the state, they can take away your drivers license as punishment.
                            It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                            RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rah


                              Well in Illinois if they're under 21 it's illegal to drink anyway so a desiginated driver really shouldn't be necessary.

                              And for more big brother stuff, technically if you get caught drinking under-aged in the state, they can take away your drivers license as punishment.
                              In Ontario the age is 19, but we all know how it is in reality...
                              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                              Comment

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