Some People think all Veterans Are Evil

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Kidicious


What would going to the country prove? Besides the fact that that doesn't make much sense, it wouldn't matter if the US was better than other countries if they were all ****ed up anyway. The US would still be ****ed up. In other words it's not black and white. Just because the Nazi's were bad, that doesn't make the US good. It's too bad that so many people have such faulty reasoning. It's probably a problem with the way people are socialized and educated. Texas is particularly bad.

If it's not all relative, what is it? You're saying because Sudan is so bad, that the U.S. isn't good be default. Ok, now go to Somolia. Again, not by default. Go to North Korea. Still not by default, but at some point, you have to wonder; maybe the U.S. isn't all that bad, after all.
Go live in Paraguay for a year, then tell me.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
You're saying because Sudan is so bad, that the U.S. isn't good be default.

No I'm not. You just made that up.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I am not sorry to say, but if you want to walk up to me as I read that poem and tell me it is evil, I will punch your lights out.

Let's just say we'll both be expressing ourselves freely and I'll take my chances with a jury.

The sole purpose of that poem was to get Canada to continue feeding children into the maw of WWI. I don't see how anyone could see it as anything but unmitigated evil.

AND THE BAND PLAYED WALTZING MATILDA

When I was a young man I carried my pack
And I lived the free life of a rover
From the Murrays green basin to the dusty outback
I waltzed my Matilda all over
Then in nineteen fifteen my country said Son
It's time to stop rambling 'cause there's work to be done
So they gave me a tin hat and they gave me a gun
And they sent me away to the war
And the band played Waltzing Matilda
As we sailed away from the quay
And amidst all the tears and the shouts and the cheers
We sailed off to Gallipoli

How well I remember that terrible day
How the blood stained the sand and the water
And how in that hell that they called Suvla Bay
We were butchered like lambs at the slaughter
Johnny Turk he was ready, he primed himself well
He chased us with bullets, he rained us with shells
And in five minutes flat he'd blown us all to hell
Nearly blew us right back to Australia
But the band played Waltzing Matilda
As we stopped to bury our slain
We buried ours and the Turks buried theirs
Then we started all over again

Now those that were left, well we tried to survive
In a mad world of blood, death and fire
And for ten weary weeks I kept myself alive
But around me the corpses piled higher
Then a big Turkish shell knocked me arse over tit
And when I woke up in my hospital bed
And saw what it had done, I wished I was dead
Never knew there were worse things than dying
For no more I'll go waltzing Matilda
All around the green bush far and near
For to hump tent and pegs, a man needs two legs
No more waltzing Matilda for me

So they collected the cripples, the wounded, the maimed
And they shipped us back home to Australia
The armless, the legless, the blind, the insane
Those proud wounded heroes of Suvla
And as our ship pulled into Circular Quay
I looked at the place where my legs used to be
And thank Christ there was nobody waiting for me
To grieve and to mourn and to pity
And the band played Waltzing Matilda
As they carried us down the gangway
But nobody cheered, they just stood and stared
Then turned all their faces away

And now every April I sit on my porch
And I watch the parade pass before me
And I watch my old comrades, how proudly they march
Reliving old dreams of past glory
And the old men march slowly, all bent, stiff and sore
The forgotten heroes from a forgotten war
And the young people ask, "What are they marching for?"
And I ask myself the same question
And the band plays Waltzing Matilda
And the old men answer to the call
But year after year their numbers get fewer
Some day no one will march there at all

Waltzing Matilda, Waltzing Matilda
Who'll come a waltzing Matilda with me
And their ghosts may be heard as you pass the Billabong
Who'll come-a-waltzing Matilda with me?
copyright © Eric Bogle

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Kidicious


No I'm not. You just made that up.

No, not really. That's the impression you give.

And Che, you get more and more twisted. Now, you're saying involvement in WWII was a bad thing?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
No, not really. That's the impression you give.

Come on SlowwHand. There is absolutely no reason to assume that I meant any such thing.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Kidicious


What would going to the country prove? Besides the fact that that doesn't make much sense, it wouldn't matter if the US was better than other countries if they were all ****ed up anyway. The US would still be ****ed up. In other words it's not black and white. Just because the Nazi's were bad, that doesn't make the US good. It's too bad that so many people have such faulty reasoning. It's probably a problem with the way people are socialized and educated. Texas is particularly bad.

Again, this is what you wrote.

[Kidlicious]

You should get just the opposite from that that you did. I'm saying that the fact that I don't like my government has nothing to do with how I judge other governments, and that to use that method of reasoning (that which I do not) would be stupid.

[SlowwHand]

Ok, fine. Take other governments and make the same comparison. Somolia hasn't had any government in at least 15 years. That's better? Go down the list. Are any better? More to your point, are they worse?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles

Originally posted by notyoueither
I am not sorry to say, but if you want to walk up to me as I read that poem and tell me it is evil, I will punch your lights out.

Let's just say we'll both be expressing ourselves freely and I'll take my chances with a jury.

The sole purpose of that poem was to get Canada to continue feeding children into the maw of WWI. I don't see how anyone could see it as anything but unmitigated evil.

Actually, it's the immediate, raw reactions of a man to the carnage he was living in. He wrote it while looking at the grave of a friend of his.

It became famous because of the power of it. It brings home the horror and the cost of war in a very effective manner.

Was it used to recruit in Britain and Canada? Yes. You can see that in the last verse, although that verse might be understood better when you understand that he and his comrades were in the midst of a battle where they had been among the recipients of the first gas attacks of the war. No masks. Pissed off at the enemy who launched those attacks? You bet.

Is it used to recruit for the trenches now? No. It is used as a memorial to those who went and never came back. Not only those who went to the trenches, but for all those who served in war and as peacekeepers and who did not come home again.

Incidentally, have you not spoken kindly of The Internationale?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Ok, fine. Take other governments and make the same comparison. Somolia hasn't had any government in at least 15 years. That's better? Go down the list. Are any better? More to your point, are they worse?

What would that do with the question of whether or not I would want to kill for my government? If one of those governments attacked the US then I could see making a decision comparing governments to each other. But if it's a question of killing people in other lands who aren't trying to replace my government then whether or not they are good or bad in comparison to my government shouldn't matter at all if my own government is hostile towards me.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles
The sole purpose of that poem was to get Canada to continue feeding children into the maw of WWI. I don't see how anyone could see it as anything but unmitigated evil.

You are either immensely ignorant, totally ****ing retarded, completely evil yourself, or all of the above.

It was written on the scrap of paper, using the back of one of one of the author's comrade's back during a lull in battle. It was written the day he witnessed one of his best friends killed in battle. The author himself was a field surgeon. It was first published in a BRITISH magazine and didn't even become popular in Canada until some time later.

That you pretend like it is a piece of government propaganda is utterly despicable and completely wrong.

You should feel tremendous shame right now.

[SlowwHand]

Ok, Kid. This is the last I have to say on this.
Some people call Vietnam wrong. I saw people leaving and people wanting to leave, that couldn't. I saw family of people that left, years later. I couldn't make them stop thanking me for being involved. Couldn't stop them from bringing me snacks.

I doubt that you would find many holocaust srurvivors and relatives, nor most Germans, who wish we'd let Hitler run wild.

Want to talk Iraq? So you think the Kurds are cursing us and calling us interlopers?

Here's the point, Kid. You live in a nation of privilege. You're lucky. Admit that fact, and I'll admit that you have the right to complain. All I said was that it's all relative, and it is. I said go live somewhere else, then think the same thing. I stand by it. But you don't have to. You were lucky enough to be here and have the right automatically. You didn't have to fight to get here.
So rant on.

SlowwHand, over and out.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Asher


You are either immensely ignorant, totally ****ing retarded, completely evil yourself, or all of the above.

It was written on the scrap of paper, using the back of one of one of the author's comrade's back during a lull in battle. It was written the day he witnessed one of his best friends killed in battle. The author himself was a field surgeon. It was first published in a BRITISH magazine and didn't even become popular in Canada until some time later.

That you pretend like it is a piece of government propaganda is utterly despicable and completely wrong.

You should feel tremendous shame right now.

So what? Instead of questioning the stupidity and criminality of the war, like so many other WWI soldier poets, he writes a request for others to join him in the slaughterhouse. That is evil.

And who said anything about the government?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Ok, Kid. This is the last I have to say on this.
Some people call Vietnam wrong. I saw people leaving and people wanting to leave, that couldn't. I saw family of people that left, years later. I couldn't make them stop thanking me for being involved. Couldn't stop them from bringing me snacks.

I doubt that you would find many holocaust srurvivors and relatives, nor most Germans, who wish we'd let Hitler run wild.

Want to talk Iraq? So you think the Kurds are cursing us and calling us interlopers?

Here's the point, Kid. You live in a nation of privilege. You're lucky. Admit that fact, and I'll admit that you have the right to complain. All I said was that it's all relative, and it is. I said go live somewhere else, then think the same thing. I stand by it. But you don't have to. You were lucky enough to be here and have the right automatically. You didn't have to fight to get here.
So rant on.

SlowwHand, over and out.

Sure. There's always people who will appreciate what you do for them when you fight a war. There's no doubt about that. That doesn't mean you have to do it. Personally I'm very glad to have never been in a war. Also, I teach my son not to fight in wars in the hopes that he never will. I teach him about pacifists and how they refuse to fight and even accept retribution for that decision.

I don't care if you call me a chicken or disloyal. I don't see anything wrong with not fighting for someone esle. So it doesn't bother me. I think it won't bother my son either when he grows up.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles


So what? Instead of questioning the stupidity and criminality of the war, like so many other WWI soldier poets, he writes a request for others to join him in the slaughterhouse. That is evil.

Why?