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Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles
Uh, no. What "crippled" the Clinton administration was the fact that liberals refused to put any pressure on them for fear of "crippling" him. Thus, the only pressure on Clinton came from the right, which is the only group he catered to. It's why Nixon would be considered a leftist president by today's standards. And it's why Obama will shift to the right when you liberals don't hold his feet to the fire.
The only reason Clinton went after gays in the military early was because of heavy pressure from interest groups. It backfired because it was seen as him putting that policy above all others, which allowed the Republicans to portray him as beholding to "extreme" leftwing interests. This was a large part of why the Republicans won Congress in 1994.
Had Clinton waited until after other significant policy proposals had been implementedand and he'd built up some cred with the public first, I think it would have turned out differently. But he did it without having any political capital yet, and for a 43% President, it was dumb.
I also think the experience of this was a big reason why Clinton backed DOMA. He had gotten burned on the issue before, so he covered his ass to neutralize it for the 1996 election.
And if I recall correctly, Clinton wanted to actually abolish all discrimination against gays and lesbians in military. The end product was a bad compromise with Republican Congress.
And, who originated the stupid DOMA in first place? Hint - it was not Bill Clinton.
A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.
Yeah, well fortunately few care about your judgment, because it's generally piss-poor anyway.
It's just not my judgement. That's the thing. In fact, I wouldn't vote for someone who was for gay marriage anyway, because I'm against capitalism. You've got to convince a whole bunch of other people that this is important to you. That's what African Americans did.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
Originally posted by MrFun
No, but apparently you have the magical powers to tell people what they care about and what they don't care about.
If you are willing to accepted than you aren't much opposed to it now are you. Now who's not making any sense. Who do you think you're fooling here? People use their brains. You just can't tell people what you believe and accept them to take it at face value.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
Originally posted by Mrs Snuggles
So in other words, you're against gay marriage.
Well, then, I think we're done here.
He's also completely irrelevant in the U.S. Gays at least have some political clout.
EDIT: I'm also not following the logic that being pro-gay marriage is necessitates being capitalist. Isn't gay marriage equality part of the Socialist party platform?
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
The only reason Clinton went after gays in the military early was because of heavy pressure from interest groups. It backfired because it was seen as him putting that policy above all others, which allowed the Republicans to portray him as beholding to "extreme" leftwing interests. This was a large part of why the Republicans won Congress in 1994.
The reason the GOP won in 94 was because the Dems, having control of the Congress and Presidency, failed to deliver on anything promised in 92. Clinton had made a campaign promise to allow gays to serve in the military. It wasn't about special interest groups or being perceived as being beholden to them. The liberals simply failed to put real pressure on the Democrats, who, predictably, let the GOP set the agenda, and were then thrown out of office for being inept and useless. It wasn't just gays in the military where the liberals failed to be useful (although I'm being redundant). On health care, on the environment, etc., liberals backed off so as not to hurt the Democrats, and the Democrats then responded to the only pressure on them, the pressure from the right.
But if this is your attitude, then I expect you will repeat your mistakes of a decade ago, and feel betrayed once again as Obama repeats his history and decide to work with the right.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
He's also completely irrelevant in the U.S. Gays at least have some political clout.
EDIT: I'm also not following the logic that being pro-gay marriage is necessitates being capitalist. Isn't gay marriage equality part of the Socialist party platform?
Marriage being done for property rights that are the basis of the capitalist system is the only chain I can come up with.
Had Clinton waited until after other significant policy proposals had been implementedand and he'd built up some cred with the public first, I think it would have turned out differently.
The Dems need to get some successes under their belts before they (in the words of Obi Wan) go off on some damn fool idealistic crusade.
I wouldn't vote for someone who was for gay marriage anyway, because I'm against capitalism
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
He's also completely irrelevant in the U.S. Gays at least have some political clout.
No you don't. There are more gays than communists. If you guys wouldn't vote for politicians who are publically against gay marriage you would have a lot more power. Otherwise people who oppose gay marriage have no reason to treat you as you wish.
One day I expect there to be many more communists, and on that day I expect them not to vote for those who stand for the positions that we most strongly oppose. Only in that way, can we be a powerfull force.
EDIT: I'm also not following the logic that being pro-gay marriage is necessitates being capitalist. Isn't gay marriage equality part of the Socialist party platform?
This is confusing to me. Just forget what I said anyway, because now that I think of it it would be beneficial for you to convince me because I would stand with you in other ways besides voting.
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
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