I have lost faith in America, and Americans

[Kidlicious]

You certainly should explain why you said..

"I always find it amusing when people get outraged on the behalf of minorities they're not a part of"

Of course IMO it was just a very stupid thing to say, but you'll never admit it, will you?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


That's the same attitude that got us DADT and crippled the Clinton Administration early on.

I'm in favor of longterm pragmatism. Obama is already poised to make significant strides on LGBT issues, but he couldn't go so strongly against a cultural current that still exists. Not uplifting, I know, but that's the breaks for a candidate who wants to get elected. Coming out in favor of gay marriage would have hurt him substantially, and galvanized Republicans who otherwise appeared to have stayed home, based on turnout numbers.

An Obama presidency will be far better for gays than a McCain presidency will be, no question. And that's an important step.

I for one am insulted to have a straight peron tell me that I do not care about civil rights issues that directly affect me.

Voting for Obama was about taking one, pragmatic step forward whereas voting for McCain would have been two or three steps backward in regards to equal civil rights protection.

Voting for Obama was not about my willingness to sit on the back of the bus, thank you very much. For me, it was about choosing a politician who is smart enough and savvy enough to know that civil union approach may be the best move forward toward eventually gaining respect for the words, "gay marriage."

Obama does not oppose gay marriage. He's smart enough to realize that full-throttle idealism without a healthy dose of realism can do great harm for the struggle of civil rights.

[Japher]

Gay supporters should stay in the closet where they belong. At least until there are more poeple in that closet than there are outside of the closet. Then they should pounce out all homo-ninja style and go "buya, homophobes, we have pirate powers!" Arrr.

And everyone will be happy. And we can get to work on the giant boarder fence to keep those damn foreigners from mingling with our gays.

Happy days.

[Kidlicious]

"A right delayed is a right denied"

-King

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by MrFun
Voting for Obama was not about my willingness to sit on the back of the bus, thank you very much. For me, it was about choosing a politician who is smart enough and savvy enough to know that civil union approach may be the best move forward toward eventually gaining respect for the words, "gay marriage."

Obama does not oppose gay marriage. He's smart enough to realize that full-throttle idealism without a healthy dose of realism can do great harm for the struggle of civil rights.

Bull****. This is a black man we're talking about. Although he doesn't have the heritage that civil rights fighters had he should still be able to understand that it doesn't work like that. Every american should know that. If they don't they ignore history.

[MrFun]

Riiiiiight - Obama hates gays and lesbians so much that he has publicly said he will repeal DOMA and repeal "don't ask, don't tell."

You're just not making much sense, Kid.

[Arrian]

A right delayed is a right denied

Temporarily.

-Arrian

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Arrian


Temporarily.

-Arrian

As in more than a century. Again, how much do they care about it?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by MrFun
Riiiiiight - Obama hates gays and lesbians so much that he has publicly said he will repeal DOMA and repeal "don't ask, don't tell."

You're just not making much sense, Kid.

You aren't making any sense. Anyone who knows anything about relatively recent US history knows how meaningless it is to let people assume you are for something put be against it publically. Hell Jefferson was thought to be against slavery. That didn't matter for ****, now did it?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MrFun
I think he privately supports equal marriage rights for gays and lesbians but out of pragmatism, he publicly advocates civil unions as a realistic step in right direction.

That's the problem with you Obama supporters. You all believe that privately he supports whatever you support, no matter his statements (or lack thereof) and his legislative history.

This is just Clinton 2.0

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


That's the same attitude that got us DADT and crippled the Clinton Administration early on.

Uh, no. What "crippled" the Clinton administration was the fact that liberals refused to put any pressure on them for fear of "crippling" him. Thus, the only pressure on Clinton came from the right, which is the only group he catered to. It's why Nixon would be considered a leftist president by today's standards. And it's why Obama will shift to the right when you liberals don't hold his feet to the fire.

[Arrian]

Let us all now listen to the two communists tell us what to do.



Clinton II... sounds pretty good to me.

-Arrian

[Q Classic]

Originally posted by Kidicious
You certainly should explain why you said..

"I always find it amusing when people get outraged on the behalf of minorities they're not a part of"

Of course IMO it was just a very stupid thing to say, but you'll never admit it, will you?

Because it's not stupid.

I'm completely fine with those who empathize with those of a certain minority.

But if I'm in the minority, I get to decide how I feel about it, and I find it amusing to hear someone who isn't part of that minority tell me how I should feel. For them to be outraged on my behalf when I'm not, well, that just strikes me a bit of priviledged guilt, a self-serving condescension to make themselves feel better by being oh-so-progressive, when really? They're not the ones who're suffering.

There's a reason why the fags are on one side of this argument about gay rights, and you're on the other.

I'm willing to accept the slow, inexorable march towards equality. It's how it's worked for Jews and Asians with minimal fuss. I'm also willing to fight a few big fights here and there, like Proposition 8.

But I see no reason to be disappointed with Obama's election because he might not be everything we want--especially when the other choices were, overall, either counterproductive at best or horrifying at worst--I see no reason to cut off my nose to spite my face.

The simple fact that you cannot empathize with Boris, MrFun, or me on this topic suggests that you yourself have the issue you tried to project onto me.

So take your self-righteous prickishness and go stuff it up your ass.

[Q Classic]

What's more, ********, just because I'm gay doesn't mean that's the only part of me that votes.

We're actual, three-dimensional people too, with other issues we care about, like technology, science, the place of religion, taxation policy, and the like. Suggesting that we should vote only for the fabulously gay-friendly candidate is insulting on the level of McCain assuming women would vote for Palin because they had vaginas too.

[Ramo]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles

Originally posted by MrFun
I think he privately supports equal marriage rights for gays and lesbians but out of pragmatism, he publicly advocates civil unions as a realistic step in right direction.

That's the problem with you Obama supporters. You all believe that privately he supports wheater you support, no matter his statements (or lack thereof) and his legislative history.

This is just Clinton 2.0

He did come out publicly against Prop 8. He just, understandably, didn't make it a focus of his campaign.

What's nice about ballot initiatives that are enacted by a simple majority is that they can also be overturned by a simple majority. And time is decidedly on our side. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it's repealed this time next year (or the following year).