Daughter of slave votes for Obama

[rah]

Originally posted by MrFun
To be honest, I do have mixed feelings on affirmative action. But I have a question.

What would be a better way to give minority an edge to compensate for decades of past, systematic discrimination while companies continue to discriminate by race in violation of equal employment laws?

I also had mixed feelings. 20 years ago there were many instances of qualified whites being passed over for unqualified blacks. You could look at the senior officers of almost any company and the black or women headed up HR or Building operations. Most were considered token. As unfair as some of that was, we're seeing positive benefits from it 20 years later. What happened was that even if some unqualified blacks and women were promoted farther than they should have been, when they attained those positions they had a tendency to promote qualified minorities and women. Once the ball got rolling, it has picked up speed. Now I will be the first to admit that there are still issues in a lot of companies, but it's no where near as bad as it was in the 70's and 80's. And I expect it to get better.
So if you ask me what would have been better, I can say why I didn't approve of it then because of what it caused (reverse descrimination) I have to agree that it was the best thing to do at the time because it broke the log jam which has led to improvement. So improved that I believe it could sustain itself with it being forced.

[Jon Miller]

I use to think we were at the time AA should be phased out, I think we are close but am no longer sure we are there (as a nation, some areas are there I think).

JM

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Kidicious


People compare their wages to that of others. A lot of poor whites don't care if their wages don't increase as long as they get paid more than blacks.

Hence, voting against their interests, because they are hurting themselves by doing so.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by MikeH


Any black person voting republican at any point in the last 70 years would have been voting against their best interests so she has voted sensibly.

Discuss.

No.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Civil_Rights_Act#By_party

[MrFun]

But Jaguar, when the votes are broken down by region along with party lines, then the Democratic votes are greater than Republican votes (more northern Democrats compared to northern Republicans).

[Jaguar]

So what? Let's deconstruct this a little more.

AXIOM:
Voting against the Civil Rights Act is contrary to best interest of African-Americans.

FACT 1:
Voting for a politician gives him a better chance of getting elected, and therefore voting in Congress.

SYLLOGISM 1:
IF the previous two things are true, THEN it is so that it would be in an African American's interest to vote against politicians who would be likely to oppose the Civil Rights Act.


Now, let's add a further fact. I realize this may be complicated.

FACT 2:
The Southern Democrats in the Senate opposed the Civil Rights Act unanimously.

SYLLOGISM 2:
IF it was against African Americans' self-interest to vote for politicians who opposed the Civil Rights Act, (syllogism 1) AND IF the Southern Democrats in the Senate opposed the Civil Rights Act, THEN it was in African Americans' self-interest to vote against scum like this guy, this guy, and this guy.

If my logic (complicated as it may be) is correct, then MikeH's claim is demonstrably false. I apologize if my terse response was unclear, but this one should be quite comprehensive.

[GePap]

Given that the few Southern Republicans who existed all voted against the bill, an African American in the South would have been screwed no matter what party they voted for, assuming they could vote at all.

In the North, it would of course depend on one's location, though Northern Democrats in both the House and Senate voted for the bill in greater numbers than Northern Republicans.

Lets add that this woman lives in Texas. The sole Southern Democratic senator to vote for the Civil Rights Act was Senator Ralph Yarborough of Texas (and the sole Southern Republican Senator, John Tower of Texas, voted against. So if this woman voted for Yarborough and against Tower, she was clearly voting her self-interests.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by GePap
Given that the few Southern Republicans who existed all voted against the bill, an African American in the South would have been screwed no matter what party they voted for, assuming they could vote at all.

yep

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by GePap


I don't think that their "racism" in that regard is any more damaging than their secterianism, sexism, political bias, or any of the other reasons they did not vote for Obama.

As I said, great! It's a minor issue. How many of the liberals here would agree with you, do you think? I believe that almost all would label a caucasian who wont vote for Obama cos he's black, a racist.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles
Uhm, Reagan was of the religious right. The last GOP president who didn't pander to the RR was Eisenhower.

Reagan was loved by the religious right but he wasnt of the religious right himself. He was just religious, just as are 80-90% of all americans.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by SpencerH


As I said, great! It's a minor issue. How many of the liberals here would agree with you, do you think? I believe that almost all would label a caucasian who wont vote for Obama cos he's black, a racist.

Uh, if a white person refuses to vote for a candidate because he's black that is racism.

If a white person looks at the black candidate's qualifications and the black candidate's positions on the issues and then decides not to vote for that person that would not be racism.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by GePap
Given that the few Southern Republicans who existed all voted against the bill, an African American in the South would have been screwed no matter what party they voted for, assuming they could vote at all.

Those are the Southern Republicans who managed to get elected. Most got thrown out of office for being in favor of civil rights. For example, Robert Byrd won his Senate seat from William Revercomb because Revercomb couldn't appeal to bigoted white voters.

The only Republicans who did manage to win elections were anti-civil rights. A parallel situation would be Democrats from red states, who are against gay rights. It doesn't mean Democrats in general are against it, but only the Democrats who are willing to compromise their principles (or those who genuinely are anti-gay-rights) are able to survive in many red states.

Lets add that this woman lives in Texas. The sole Southern Democratic senator to vote for the Civil Rights Act was Senator Ralph Yarborough of Texas (and the sole Southern Republican Senator, John Tower of Texas, voted against. So if this woman voted for Yarborough and against Tower, she was clearly voting her self-interests.

The article does not have any detailed description of this lady's voting record, so I'm kind of confused as to why everyone's making such a big fuss about it; it just says she voted "as a Democrat" for 70 years. That doesn't necessarily mean she was a partisan hack, as some people in this thread have insinuated. She almost assuredly had to deal with many racist politicians in her time, many of them Democrats. In a number of elections, she probably faced a choice between two atrocious candidates. She has thoroughly earned her opportunity to vote for Mr. Obama.

As a side note, I don't see why being "excited to vote for the first black nominee for president" makes her a racist, which seems to be a popular opinion in this thread.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Jaguar
As a side note, I don't see why being "excited to vote for the first black nominee for president" makes her a racist, which seems to be a popular opinion in this thread.

Because there are a lot of clueless white people who don't have a shred of empathy.

[Jaguar]

I'm excited about that, and I'm a white McCain voter.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by MrFun


Uh, if a white person refuses to vote for a candidate because he's black that is racism.

If a white person looks at the black candidate's qualifications and the black candidate's positions on the issues and then decides not to vote for that person that would not be racism.

Ding Ding

Clocking in at number 1, MF.