Obama and Israel

[Riesstiu IV]

Arabs and Iranians actually working together for a second holocaust? Your ****tin me, you actually believe that? You forget that Israel has its own nuclear arsenal and the Islamic world is so fractured among ethnic and theological divisions that such an alliance is a fantasy at best. Just look at Iraq, Arabs can't even work together to form a unified resistance to kick out the US military.

Israel's primary threat is from demographic changes within its population, not conventional wars from Arabs or Iranians that the Fox News types seem to harp on about.

[Lancer]

I'm willing to let events play themselves out since we have no ability or options to effect events otherwise. So lets just see what happens.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Riesstiu IV
Jesus Christ, when did Israel become the 51st state? Why does every politician have to promise monetary and military support. You could probably solve a lot of anti-American hatred among the camel jockeys by not taking a strong stance on the Israel/Palestine issues like Japan does. Having such a strong alliance with Israel doesn't do much for us and Israel has been a pretty questionable ally at times. Still not as bad as Saudi Arabia.

Frankly, I would prefer a presidential candidate who had the guts to not lick Israel's taint. Arabs aren't going to attack Israel just because Obama doesn't send a sh*t ton of weapons and a billion dollar check.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Riesstiu IV
Jesus Christ, when did Israel become the 51st state? Why does every politician have to promise monetary and military support. You could probably solve a lot of anti-American hatred among the camel jockeys by not taking a strong stance on the Israel/Palestine issues like Japan does. Having such a strong alliance with Israel doesn't do much for us and Israel has been a pretty questionable ally at times. Still not as bad as Saudi Arabia.

Frankly, I would prefer a presidential candidate who had the guts to not lick Israel's taint. Arabs aren't going to attack Israel just because Obama doesn't send a sh*t ton of weapons and a billion dollar check.

[Lancer]

Heresson, everyone knows you are the "Emperor
of syrian frogs" and while I don't think there are all that many Frenchies in Syria it is kind of a double whammy against your opinion on this matter being no biased.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by onodera
A stealth bomber won't save Israel. It'll be shot down during the takeoff.

so far very little countries can do that. none of that are in our neighbourhood.
if you sell s-300 to the iranians / syrians this might become a threat, but we supposedly have means in developement which could disable your systems.

Abramses won't save Israel. Their tanks are better, but Hezbollah still thrashed them.

our tanks are not better, just more fit for our missions.
and hezbollah did not trash them. What did happen is that Israeli commanders sucked ass at operating tank squads tactically and strategically, and ignored every written/unwritten rule about operating tanks in a guerilla AT-ridden environment.

Even in this hideous operational environment our tanks excelled.
out of hundreds of tanks, only several dozens were hurt to the amount that required repair, and 90% of those were repaired within hours / days. This is something our tanks excel at. Almost no tanks were completely wrecked. And we're talking about dozens of rocket hits per tank.

Also, consider the following statistic:
If you take an example MK4 tank,
out of several dozen rockets hitting it from good range (and very skillfully pointed at the weakest places) less than a dozen actually managed to hurt it, only 2-3 were able to pierce it, and usually none of them proved fatal for the crew.

We had just around two dozen crew members injured, and IIRC a handful of fatalities. Most tank crews were hurt when outside the tank.

Considering the dozens of rockets that managed to hit each tank (as opposed to miss it), that would be 99% survivability.

F-22's won't save them either. Who needs fighters when your enemy won't use aircraft much?

wiki:
The Lockheed Martin/Boeing F-22 Raptor is a fighter aircraft that uses stealth technology. It is primarily an air superiority fighter, but has multiple capabilities that include ground attack, electronic warfare, and signals intelligence roles.

What will save Israel is American military bases in every vulnerable spot. No one is afraid of attacking Israel now, but attacking the US is a different thing.
If this isn't done and Obama ignores the Jewish lobby or fights it as any special interest group he promised he would, then Israel is toast.

[LotC]

Originally posted by Lancer
I didn't see that on the news LotC. Where do you get it from?

It was big news back in June when he locked it up, not after the convention. Here's the text of his speech. The best part is where he declares Jerusalem the undivided capital of Israel.

http://www.observer.com/2008/emanuel-endorses-obama-after-aipac-speech

Article is too long to copy and paste.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Riesstiu IV
Israel has been a pretty questionable ally at times. Still not as bad as Saudi Arabia.

First, I doubt you have enough of an idea how much little ol' Israel has helped your country's security and the safety of your soldiers.

IDF chief of staff visited U.S. several months ago and was surprisingly awarded a US medal of merit for his, quote, "assistance to the war on terror" and "contribution to the security dialogue".

Second, you're welcome to prove how Israel has been a questionable ally.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Riesstiu IV
Israel's primary threat is from demographic changes within its population, not conventional wars from Arabs or Iranians that the Fox News types seem to harp on about.

As long as Iranian and Hezbullah agents operate subversion networks among Israeli arabs, the democraphical changes are a threat that is heavily affected by the outside environment.

If Israeli arabs will believe Israel can be defeated and subversion will be funded and instigated by Iran et al, then it's a real threat.

If there will be no outer threats on Israel, the Israeli arabs will have little choise but to assimilate and accept the Israeli state.

Some separatist and anti-esablishment groups arose only after Israel was challenged by outside movements such as Hezbullah and the palestinian resistance groups.

[Lancer]

Yes that's true, Israel has been a great friend. Just by surviving the Israelis provide an essential service to the west. Also their intel services actually have hands on which we lack.

The only thing that still bugs me is that ship you guys hit. Don't recall the name.

[LotC]

The USS Liberty.

[Lancer]

Thanks for your answer LotC. I wasn't aware that Obama made that position statement.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by onodera
A stealth bomber won't save Israel. It'll be shot down during the takeoff.
Abramses won't save Israel. Their tanks are better, but Hezbollah still thrashed them.
F-22's won't save them either. Who needs fighters when your enemy won't use aircraft much?
What will save Israel is American military bases in every vulnerable spot. No one is afraid of attacking Israel now, but attacking the US is a different thing.
If this isn't done and Obama ignores the Jewish lobby or fights it as any special interest group he promised he would, then Israel is toast.

Israel outspends all the Arab countries on the military by something like 5:1 so I doubt the Arab hordes are going to be sacking Jerusalem any time soon.

[Naked Gents Rut]

It is primarily an air superiority fighter, but has multiple capabilities that include ground attack, electronic warfare, and signals intelligence roles.

The F-22's EW and SIGINT capabilities are no joke, but the ground attack role is bull****.

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Oerdin





Israel outspends all the Arab countries on the military by something like 5:1 so I doubt the Arab hordes are going to be sacking Jerusalem any time soon.

Double check your figures with special attention to Saudi Arabia.