Obama and Israel

[Riesstiu IV]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

First, I doubt you have enough of an idea how much little ol' Israel has helped your country's security and the safety of your soldiers.

IDF chief of staff visited U.S. several months ago and was surprisingly awarded a US medal of merit for his, quote, "assistance to the war on terror" and "contribution to the security dialogue".

Second, you're welcome to prove how Israel has been a questionable ally.

Sorry, I meant to say more along the lines of: Israel's usefulness as an ally is questionable.

The attack on the USS Liberty was a pretty suspicious action that seems like a false flag operation to get the US dragged in the six day war. I could possibly understand that Israel mistook the ship for an Egyptian warship despite visibility of the ensign and it's distinct appearance but to continuing attack the ship for 45 minutes despite multiple fly overs?

It seems like it's more of a one way alliance for all the money that is given and technology that was shared. What to we get in return? More enemies. No doubt that Israel does help with intelligence to protect US civilians and soldiers from terrorists acts but would these acts even be perpetrated if we remained neutral or at least discrete in the region?

The scariest part is so much of this support for Israel comes not from zionists lobbies but retarded evangelic Christians who believe that the second coming of Christ will not occur until Israel rules all of old Judea.

[Dinner]

OK, the Saudis through that figure but they won't become involved and I just don't see a creditable military threat to the existence of Israel.

[SlowwHand]

And you are an idiot.

[DaShi]

Sloww, you're in no position.

[Riesstiu IV]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
And you are an idiot.

And only steers and queers come from Texas. You don't look much like a steer to me son.

[SlowwHand]

Oh, that's new. Like I give a **** what you think anyway.

[Whaleboy]

The arabs sure love Obama for some reason.

Even if that were true (evidence?), it doesn't mean Obama loves the Arabs.

[Lancer]

Just stuff I saw on the tube. I suppose I could google 'Obama' and 'arabs' or 'Iran' and see what comes up. Maybe I will too.

[Naked Gents Rut]

Just Google "Obama" and "Rashid Khalidi". Will save you time.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

First, I doubt you have enough of an idea how much little ol' Israel has helped your country's security and the safety of your soldiers.

IDF chief of staff visited U.S. several months ago and was surprisingly awarded a US medal of merit for his, quote, "assistance to the war on terror" and "contribution to the security dialogue".

So Israel contributed to decreasing danger for american soldiers created by America's alliance with Israel...

Oh, surely You contributed something. If You get the biggest foreign aid, and unconditional political support, You may spare a bit of that.
The money spent on Israel could be much better used, for safety of american soldiers and restoring USA's tarnished image by humanitarian aid worldwide.
Israel will easily survive alone, and only a reduced support from USA can lead to the peace in the Middle East.

[Barnabas]

Israel is America's baby. Not giving Israel weapons and billios of dollars is like not breastfeeding your baby.

[onodera]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

so far very little countries can do that. none of that are in our neighbourhood.
if you sell s-300 to the iranians / syrians this might become a threat, but we supposedly have means in developement which could disable your systems.

Don't forget that stealth is not magical invisibility. It only works if the plane flies into the radar-covered zone at night, not when it takes off straight inside it during the day.

our tanks are not better, just more fit for our missions.
and hezbollah did not trash them. What did happen is that Israeli commanders sucked ass at operating tank squads tactically and strategically, and ignored every written/unwritten rule about operating tanks in a guerilla AT-ridden environment.

Having bad commanders is even wors than having bad armour.

Even in this hideous operational environment our tanks excelled.
out of hundreds of tanks, only several dozens were hurt to the amount that required repair, and 90% of those were repaired within hours / days. This is something our tanks excel at. Almost no tanks were completely wrecked. And we're talking about dozens of rocket hits per tank.

Also, consider the following statistic:
If you take an example MK4 tank,
out of several dozen rockets hitting it from good range (and very skillfully pointed at the weakest places) less than a dozen actually managed to hurt it, only 2-3 were able to pierce it, and usually none of them proved fatal for the crew.

We had just around two dozen crew members injured, and IIRC a handful of fatalities. Most tank crews were hurt when outside the tank.

Considering the dozens of rockets that managed to hit each tank (as opposed to miss it), that would be 99% survivability.

Not bad.

wiki:
The Lockheed Martin/Boeing F-22 Raptor is a fighter aircraft that uses stealth technology. It is primarily an air superiority fighter, but has multiple capabilities that include ground attack, electronic warfare, and signals intelligence roles.

Still it would be an overpriced overkill.

Remember, I'm not talking about a second Yom-Kippur war. I'm talking about many smaller-scale conflicts with non-state entities and slow outbreeding. AFAIR, Israel is only growing because of the ultra-Orthodox, and they don't make good soldiers.

[Julian Delphiki]

Originally posted by Lancer
I guess we'll see about that. Certainly its Iran's declared intention to attack Isreal. I guess what you have to ask yourself is what its worth to you to prevent the Iranians and arabs overrunning Israel and the resulting holocaust. If nothing, well then I guess that's your view.

Bulls***.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Riesstiu IV
Sorry, I meant to say more along the lines of: Israel's usefulness as an ally is questionable.

The attack on the USS Liberty was a pretty suspicious action that seems like a false flag operation to get the US dragged in the six day war. I could possibly understand that Israel mistook the ship for an Egyptian warship despite visibility of the ensign and it's distinct appearance but to continuing attack the ship for 45 minutes despite multiple fly overs?

And an example from 40 years ago is your best shot?
From what I read after the first wave of attack, our guys began to suspect it's your ship and not an enemy, but then some of your guys shot back, so there was another round of shooting.

I've read several accounts of the Israeli side, and having been in a war room, I can easily understand how such an accident could happen, especially in the age before computers and live video verification.

It seems like it's more of a one way alliance for all the money that is given and technology that was shared. What to we get in return? More enemies. No doubt that Israel does help with intelligence to protect US civilians and soldiers from terrorists acts but would these acts even be perpetrated if we remained neutral or at least discrete in the region?

You guys are mistaken to think your government somehow puts Israel's policy above your own.

What ever interest you had to invade Iraq, to act against Iran and other areas in the ME, you always acted according to your own interests (be they correct or flawed), and Israel is rarely the cause of that.

Israel provides a huge amount of technology and know how. Your newest anti-missile technology has already surpassed ours, but the basis for it is an Israeli program you funded (Arrow), and Israel sold you all the tech for the financial support.

All the money you 'give us' we can only spend on US products. So basically it's a scheme to continue fund your weapon production companies.

The US rarely acts in anything but self-interest and rarely ever loses in the deals she makes.

The scariest part is so much of this support for Israel comes not from zionists lobbies but retarded evangelic Christians who believe that the second coming of Christ will not occur until Israel rules all of old Judea.

Hey man. Can't argue with religion

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by Heresson
So Israel contributed to decreasing danger for american soldiers created by America's alliance with Israel...

I don't ever recall Israel being the reason you attacked Afghanistan, or Iraq.

Infact I know for a fact that Israeli intel disagreed with much of the pre-war intel the US presented.

Oh, surely You contributed something. If You get the biggest foreign aid, and unconditional political support, You may spare a bit of that.
The money spent on Israel could be much better used, for safety of american soldiers and restoring USA's tarnished image by humanitarian aid worldwide.

You haven't got a clue what you're talking about, you silly polak.
a) We hardly get foreign aid. Just military aid.
b) i can't, for the life of me, understand how you're bothere by some alliance that has nothing to do with you, you Syrian zealot.

Your country is just jealous it got less US-aid.

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSL2639566720080526

http://www.usaid.gov/pl/listof1.htm

http://countrystudies.us/poland/92.htm

Israel will easily survive alone, and only a reduced support from USA can lead to the peace in the Middle East.

Actually it is only US inolvement that helped achieve peace with its involvement.

The countries we are at peace at, all happen to be US allies:
- Egypt gets tons of money for the peace with us
- Jordan gets tons of money for the peace with us
- Saudi Arabia is defacto in armistice with us
- Other ME countries supported by the US, are usually on good terms with us.