Obama and Israel

[fed1943]

Did someone think about?

It's funny to read of lot of critics (not to say more) about UK and USA...

written in English.

Best regards,

[Arrian]

Originally posted by LotC
Anyone in Washington that doesn't unconditionally support Israel is politically dead. Obama knows this; that's why the first thing he did after securing the nomination was to go swear fealty to AIPAC.

IIRC, Siro's right about how the money is funnelled, though. It's a feedback loop for US defense contractors.

-Arrian

[BeBMan]

My impression was however that the "unconditionally support" is mostly a rhetoric one, not (at least not always) one of practical politics.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by BeBro
My impression was however that the "unconditionally support" is mostly a rhetoric one, not (at least not always) one of practical politics.

Well he once said, "Nobody's suffered as much as the Palestinian people," which is why he has to eat crow now.

Don't expect any pro-palestinian policies though.

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Zevico
I think everyone agrees the British messed the Middle East up. Not like anyone there needed help, but the British can always be relied upon to mess things up when called for.
If you read up on the history of British political thinking at the time, get this--the Brits were pro-Zionist because they thought Jews controlled the Ottoman Empire/'New Turks'. It was a means of persuading the Jews to pull some strings and force the Ottoman Empire out of the war. The British were at the time very dependent on the British foreign attaches/consuls for the formulation of foreign policy with respect to the ME and one of the British attaches in the Middle East was convinced that Zionists controlled the Ottoman Empire. It could well be the most ridiculous move by the Brits in that region ever.

Whilst you may well be correct in asserting that everything is the fault of the british, I think your reasoning behind that is bollocks.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Agathon


American Jews vote.

American Jews have money to invest in AIPAC.

That is why the US is giving Israel an eternal rimjob.

A lot of American Jews are sympathetic to palestinians. AIPAC gets a lot of support from non-Jews like Christian fundamentalists.

[Patroklos]

A lot of American Jews are sympathetic to palestinians.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Zevico
I think everyone agrees the British messed the Middle East up. Not like anyone there needed help, but the British can always be relied upon to mess things up when called for.
If you read up on the history of British political thinking at the time, get this--the Brits were pro-Zionist because they thought Jews controlled the Ottoman Empire/'New Turks'. It was a means of persuading the Jews to pull some strings and force the Ottoman Empire out of the war. The British were at the time very dependent on the British foreign attaches/consuls for the formulation of foreign policy with respect to the ME and one of the British attaches in the Middle East was convinced that Zionists controlled the Ottoman Empire. It could well be the most ridiculous move by the Brits in that region ever.

Ah, no. The whole point about "Zionist Influence" has to do with Russia, not the Ottoman Empire. Some officials in the British Empire believed that Zionist financiers and business leaders held influence in Russia and that by supporting the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine these financiers would use their influence to keep the new Provisional Government in Russia in the war.

[Kidlicious]

Patro,

You're just too ignorant. A majority of Jews support MoveOn.org, which supports the palestinians. They are the most pacifist population in America.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Patroklos

In my sample size of three Jewish friends whose politics I know well, I'd say 2 are "sympathetic" wrt the Palestinians and 1 of those 2 is highly unimpressed with Israeli policy as well (whereas the other is sympathetic to a point but I think is still mostly pro-Israeli policy). The third guy is a total wingnut whose foreign policy for the ME is "nuke the Arabs."

Anecdotal, I know. Hell, 2 of the 3 are Republicans which doesn't fit with the overall numbers for American Jews (one is a Republican school teacher union rep. ).

Though I imagine national poll data would support similar conclusions. It's one thing to be pro-existence of Israel. It's entirely another to be pro-Israeli policy without reservations. Acknowledging that the Palestinians have been ****ed over, repeatedly, by various people, is not the same as supporting the destruction of Israel.

-Arrian

[Zkribbler]

Or as Obama says:

On engaging Iran: "We need the United States to lead tough-minded diplomacy. This includes direct engagement with Iran similar to the meetings we conducted with the Soviets at the height of the Cold War."

On stopping Iran: "Tough-minded diplomacy would include real leverage through stronger sanctions. It would mean more determined U.S diplomacy at the United Nations. It would mean harnessing the collective power of our friends in Europe who are Iran's major trading partners. It would mean a cooperative strategy with Gulf States who supply Iran with much of the energy resources it needs. It would mean unifying those states to recognize the threat of Iran and increase pressure on Iran to suspend uranium enrichment. It would mean full implementation of U.S. sanctions laws. And over the long term, it would mean a focused approach from us to finally end the tyranny of oil, and developing our own alternative sources of energy to drive the price of oil down."

On Iraq and Israel: "A consequence of the Administration's failed strategy in Iraq has been to strengthen Iran's strategic position; reduce U.S. credibility and influence in the region; and place Israel and other nations friendly to the United States in greater peril."

On American aid to Israel: "We must preserve our total commitment to our unique defense relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defense programs."

On diplomacy: "Our job is to do more than lay out another road map."

On Israel's security: "Our job is to rebuild the road to real peace and lasting security throughout the region. That effort begins with a clear and strong commitment to the security of Israel: Our strongest ally in the region and its only established democracy. That will always be my starting point."

On the Palestinian leadership: "We should all be concerned about the agreement negotiated among Palestinians in Mecca last month."

On U.S. mediation: "We should never seek to dictate what is best for the Israelis and their security interests. No Israeli prime minister should ever feel dragged to or blocked from the negotiating table by the United States" - or is that about Syria?

[Slaughtermeyer]

Originally posted by Riesstiu IV


Sorry, I meant to say more along the lines of: Israel's usefulness as an ally is questionable.

The attack on the USS Liberty was a pretty suspicious action that seems like a false flag operation to get the US dragged in the six day war.

It was not the first time Israelis deliberately attacked a US target, nor the last.

In 1954, Israeli agents posing as Egyptian Arabs were caught in the act of trying to blow up US and UK targets in Egypt.

http://www.mideastweb.org/lavon.htm

And on 9/11, Israeli agents were caught in the act of trying to blow up the George Washington Bridge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CHq6JocvDM&NR=1

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html?q=fiveisraelis.html

Former Mossad agent Victor Ostrovsky in his book The Other Side of Deception revealed how the Mossad tricked the U.S. into attacking Libya by installing a radio transmitter in Libya that broadcast fake terrorism instructions. Convinced by this disinformation that Libya was behind the 1986 bombing of a Berlin disco in which a US soldier died, President Ronald Reagan ordered massive air attacks on Libya, including an obvious- and illegal (under US law) attempt to assassinate Qadaffi himself. Some 100 Libyan civilians were killed, including Qadaffi's two year old daughter. Libyan officials had no idea why they were attacked.

http://www.wrmea.com/backissues/1099/9910022.html

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/hoax.html

It is worth remembering the motto of the Mossad is, "By way of deception, thou shalt do war."

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Slaughtermeyer
And on 9/11, Israeli agents were caught in the act of trying to blow up the George Washington Bridge.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Slaughtermeyer
And on 9/11, Israeli agents were caught in the act of trying to blow up the George Washington Bridge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CHq6JocvDM&NR=1

Except Rather never says the men were Moussad and never says they were trying to blow up the George Washington Bridge.

I ran a Google search on this -- there is a lot of chatter in the Bloggosphere, but I can't find any legitimate news agency that's covered this story.

[Slaughtermeyer]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


Except Rather never says the men were Moussad and never says they were trying to blow up the George Washington Bridge.

But he did say that according to the FBI "enough explosives were in the truck to do great damage to the George Washington Bridge."

The Forward, a respected Jewish newspaper in New York, reported the FBI concluded that two of the men were "Israeli intelligence operatives."

One of them, Paul Kurzberg, refused to take a lie-detector test for 10 weeks — then failed it, according to his lawyer. Another of his lawyers told us Kurzberg had been reluctant to take the test because he had once worked for "Israeli intelligence" in another country.

http://www.takeoverworld.info/israel_sept11_abcnews_detained_spies.mht