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Hey, haven't really been here in years, just came by to write a thread on fascism (to which sadly only one person would write a response), but I recognized all of the same people with all of the same viewpoints. I'm not going to name names, but there were the same few American conservatives being sure to let us know about the evils of our Muslim enemies and the laughable, unfounded complaints about racism from those blacks; the same few American 'liberals' pointing out the corruption and stupidity of the Republican party (as if in mainstream politics in America on either side has never been the source of corruption and stupidity) and the ridiculousness of the right wing media such as Fox-news (why beat a dead horse? everyone with half a brain knows its awful journalism whether or not it's conservative). There were the same old Marxists, the same old group speaking the word of the gospel of the free market with the amazing powers of privatization and neo-liberalism. Even someone had to start a thread on Abortion (I can't think of a more overly-discussed, polemical issue with less of a possibility for compromise between the two sides), which I will not waste a second on reading.
So after all of these years, has anyone learned anything? Has anyone changed their viewpoints on anything? Has anyone really learned anything that has fundamentally influenced their understanding of the world, history, political systems, etc.? Has anyone done anything else other than confirm their own beliefs? I don't mean to pick on Apolyton, as this is no different from real life, perhaps a bit better. But I do single it out because it's a place where people spend hours writing and discussing these opinions. Now I'm sure in this process of intellectual masturbation some have successfully maintained or perhaps improved a bit the writing, analytical, and argumentative skills, and most importantly, it is a good way to keep up on current events. But why wouldn't you just read a good newspaper or magazine for that, by actual accomplished writers? And is it worth it to spend hours just for the maintenance of certain intellectual factulties? I'm sure there are more effective ways intellectual growth.
But the point of discussion is to learn more about other viewpoints and ideas in order to challenge and then modify your own for their better. To thoughtfully consider the viewpoints of others to uncover your own prejudices, biases, and most importantly, incorrect ideas. If we want to expand our knowledge there are thousands of amazing books written by people much more intelligent than anyone on this forum. The positive thing that is gained by discussion is to see which of your viewpoints are weak and can't be supported in arguing with other people, since those are probably the most ignorant ones. If you want to simply learn something new, read a book by an expert, but if you want to see which of your own viewpoints are wrong in order to self-improve, you go to other people and see which of your opinions you can't defend. But does anyone do this here? Most people don't in real life, but you'd hope that if there was such a place, it would be here. I don't think so. Reading people argue is just depressing, why spend so much time and energy on something so completely futile? The point of such discussion (unless you do it to simply stroke your own ego, and if that's the case, then go ahead) is to find the truth, but I haven't seen an instance where this actually occurs, where people don't just spew out their own opinions and confirm their own beliefs by declaring the other person an idiot.
I realize this takes on a high and mighty tone, and I do not claim to be better than anyone else, as I am equally as closed minded as everyone else. But I also don't spend time posting on Apolyton, and when I did come here I did get the supposed benefit of discussion here. I came to the OT a good old fashioned product of Idaho public schools with a no nonsense, straight shootin, gun-totin, Republican votin, terrorist smokin ideology. I started such classic threads as 'Like it or not euros, we're the best country in the world.' But after being completely unable to defend my viewpoints on foreign policy against foreigners in particular, I thought maybe I was wrong and it inspired a lot of discussion and research that ended up completely changing my views. Years later I don't know where I stand but at least I've discovered that a lot of aspects of the American conservative way of looking at the world are just plain retarded. I have this forum to thank for that, as there would have been no other way for me to come in contact with intelligent Europeans who could have informed me how ridiculous our outlook on the world can be. This is ideally what is gained from visiting such a place, where you can be put in contact with people from diverse places and viewpoints. It's the purpose of such a place. But I'm sorry to say that it seems to be a pretty rare case, and I think the only reason it happened is because I happened to come at such a young age before I had received a good education. Since I was such a step below a lot of the people that I couldn't in good conscience refrain from deeply questioning my beliefs.
So if you haven't had a similar experience, why do you spend time and energy discussing politics here?
So after all of these years, has anyone learned anything? Has anyone changed their viewpoints on anything? Has anyone really learned anything that has fundamentally influenced their understanding of the world, history, political systems, etc.? Has anyone done anything else other than confirm their own beliefs? I don't mean to pick on Apolyton, as this is no different from real life, perhaps a bit better. But I do single it out because it's a place where people spend hours writing and discussing these opinions. Now I'm sure in this process of intellectual masturbation some have successfully maintained or perhaps improved a bit the writing, analytical, and argumentative skills, and most importantly, it is a good way to keep up on current events. But why wouldn't you just read a good newspaper or magazine for that, by actual accomplished writers? And is it worth it to spend hours just for the maintenance of certain intellectual factulties? I'm sure there are more effective ways intellectual growth.
But the point of discussion is to learn more about other viewpoints and ideas in order to challenge and then modify your own for their better. To thoughtfully consider the viewpoints of others to uncover your own prejudices, biases, and most importantly, incorrect ideas. If we want to expand our knowledge there are thousands of amazing books written by people much more intelligent than anyone on this forum. The positive thing that is gained by discussion is to see which of your viewpoints are weak and can't be supported in arguing with other people, since those are probably the most ignorant ones. If you want to simply learn something new, read a book by an expert, but if you want to see which of your own viewpoints are wrong in order to self-improve, you go to other people and see which of your opinions you can't defend. But does anyone do this here? Most people don't in real life, but you'd hope that if there was such a place, it would be here. I don't think so. Reading people argue is just depressing, why spend so much time and energy on something so completely futile? The point of such discussion (unless you do it to simply stroke your own ego, and if that's the case, then go ahead) is to find the truth, but I haven't seen an instance where this actually occurs, where people don't just spew out their own opinions and confirm their own beliefs by declaring the other person an idiot.
I realize this takes on a high and mighty tone, and I do not claim to be better than anyone else, as I am equally as closed minded as everyone else. But I also don't spend time posting on Apolyton, and when I did come here I did get the supposed benefit of discussion here. I came to the OT a good old fashioned product of Idaho public schools with a no nonsense, straight shootin, gun-totin, Republican votin, terrorist smokin ideology. I started such classic threads as 'Like it or not euros, we're the best country in the world.' But after being completely unable to defend my viewpoints on foreign policy against foreigners in particular, I thought maybe I was wrong and it inspired a lot of discussion and research that ended up completely changing my views. Years later I don't know where I stand but at least I've discovered that a lot of aspects of the American conservative way of looking at the world are just plain retarded. I have this forum to thank for that, as there would have been no other way for me to come in contact with intelligent Europeans who could have informed me how ridiculous our outlook on the world can be. This is ideally what is gained from visiting such a place, where you can be put in contact with people from diverse places and viewpoints. It's the purpose of such a place. But I'm sorry to say that it seems to be a pretty rare case, and I think the only reason it happened is because I happened to come at such a young age before I had received a good education. Since I was such a step below a lot of the people that I couldn't in good conscience refrain from deeply questioning my beliefs.
So if you haven't had a similar experience, why do you spend time and energy discussing politics here?
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