Race may account for 6 pts. in election

[asleepathewheel]

6 points is actually less that I would have expected, and probably half if not more of what it would have been a generation ago. Granted, that's 6 points worth of dems and not the overall voting pop, but nonetheless, its an improvement.

Progress

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Theben


Give me a break. Yeah there's sexism on the left but the right-wing crying about it is like a serial killer being upset that somebody hurt his feelings.

Take a break!

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles


Please provide evidence of these attacks.

Sorry, no. I can't be arsed.

Wait a sec. Will you promise, swear on Lenin's corpse, that if I provide such evidence that you will vote McCain Palin?

[Theben]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Slavery is in the past. Everyone is legally equal now. I'm sorry if some people don't see past those two facts.

Arrgh.

Slavery is in the past. It's legacy is not. More specifically, attitudes of whites towards blacks (as evidenced in the poll), passing up qualified candidates due to race (jobs and/or school), passive racism, "coding" wrt job, housing, and loan applicants... as well as active racism like beating a black man to death and dragging his body behind a truck. For starters.

Btw, I haven't mocked you yet so...

/me points and laughs at David Floyd

Ha, HAH!!

[Theben]

Originally posted by Lancer
Wait a sec. Will you promise, swear on Lenin's corpse, that if I provide such evidence that you will vote McCain Palin?

If they're elected, I'm sure he'll vote to have them impeached, if he can. Does that count?

/me points and laughs at Lancer also

[Lancer]

Even though at me Theben laughs, with him laugh I.

[David Floyd]

More specifically, attitudes of whites towards blacks (as evidenced in the poll), passing up qualified candidates due to race (jobs and/or school),

Actually, you have it backwards. Affirmitive Action allows, encourages, and requires reverse discrimination.

And by the way, I'm passing on Obama because he really ISN'T qualified for the Presidency, among other reasons, none of which have a thing to do with his race.

passive racism, "coding" wrt job, housing, and loan applicants... as well as active racism like beating a black man to death and dragging his body behind a truck. For starters.

As for job and loan applications, find one that asks what a person's race is. Good luck.

As for white on black violence, you'll find plenty of white on white violence, and plenty more black on white violence. That doesn't prove racism, it just proves that people are *******s.

Also, if you want to play the violent crime game, do you think more or less blacks are in prison for violent crimes, as against any other race as a percentage of population? And don't pull racism in the courts on me - that's why we have a legal system that allows, among other things, jury selection with detailed questioning and peremptory strikes, and several levels of judicial review.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Imran wants to come and disagree with che on things about this election (for instance, I think the Senator is the Dem nominee because of his race, not in spite of it), but then David Floyd shows up and Imran does not want to associated with his arguments.

[Theben]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Actually, you have it backwards. Affirmitive Action allows, encourages, and requires reverse discrimination.

And why do you think it was enacted in the 1st place?

And by the way, I'm passing on Obama because he really ISN'T qualified for the Presidency, among other reasons, none of which have a thing to do with his race.

That's fine. I'm not saying if you don't vote for Obama you are a racist. FWIW, I'm voting for Obama b/c I don't want 3 more far-right SCOTUS appointments, among other reasons.

As for job and loan applications, find one that asks what a person's race is. Good luck.

Do you know what AA means on an application?

As for white on black violence, you'll find plenty of white on white violence, and plenty more black on white violence. That doesn't prove racism, it just proves that people are *******s.

If a white guy robs a store with a black guy behind the counter, and hurts him, that's not racism. If a white guy (usually guys) attack, kill, and mutilate/defame the body of a black person, it's a good bet racism is the cause.

Also, if you want to play the violent crime game, do you think more or less blacks are in prison for violent crimes, as against any other race as a percentage of population? And don't pull racism in the courts on me - that's why we have a legal system that allows, among other things, jury selection with detailed questioning and peremptory strikes, and several levels of judicial review.

That brings in the racism of society, as juries are more likely to find a black man guilty of the same crime as a white (even blacks do this), and the courts give harsher sentences. Also economic inequalities where lower income people use violence far more often to resolve disputes- this increases with all races as income falls.

I'm certain most of this has been presented to you before.

Even though at me Theben laughs, with him laugh I.

I still like you, Lancer, but you're a dope.

[David Floyd]

I'm pretty sure the only thing I've said directly related to the election is that Obama's not qualified, but that's not the only reason I oppose him.

I brought the rest up just to answer Theben's and DaShi's silliness.

[Theben]

Silliness? You said "history doesn't matter". That's almost sigworthy.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I don't want to be associated with the whole slavery is over and everyone is legally equal so its all Ok now Pollyanna crap.

[David Floyd]

And why do you think it was enacted in the 1st place?

To combat past discrimination with more discrimination, of course.

Do you know what AA means on an application?

I know from personal experience that there are a great deal of things you can and can't put on applications and ask in interviews. You can't, for example, even ask if a candidate is bi-lingual. Given the tons and tons of state and federal regulations regarding employment, some of which are quite silly, I find it hard to imagine that they actually missed something.

If a white guy robs a store with a black guy behind the counter, and hurts him, that's not racism. If a white guy (usually guys) attack, kill, and mutilate/defame the body of a black person, it's a good bet racism is the cause.

Yes, and my point is, white on black violence due to racism is no more or less prevalent than black on white violence due to racism.

That brings in the racism of society, as juries are more likely to find a black man guilty of the same crime as a white (even blacks do this), and the courts give harsher sentences.

Harsher sentences or not, the guilty verdict is what I'm concerned about. As for everyone being more likely to find blacks guilty of violent crimes, well, that's unfortunate, but the process of judicial review has also freed quite a number of blacks who were unjustly imprisoned. My point isn't that there is ZERO racism in the courts, just that there are sufficient checks and balances to account for it.

Also economic inequalities where lower income people use violence far more often to resolve disputes- this increases with all races as income falls.

This is no excuse for violence, and doesn't really address the point. If you're saying that there are more black people, and as a result OF COURSE they commit more violent crime, then I would simply say that there are still making a decision, one that they do not have to make.

I'm certain most of this has been presented to you before.

Yes, but in the end, a lot of it just boils down to excuses.

[David Floyd]

Silliness? You said "history doesn't matter". That's almost sigworthy.

If you put my comment in context, it might make more sense

Imran,

I don't want to be associated with the whole slavery is over and everyone is legally equal so its all Ok now Pollyanna crap.

Well, the only part of that you can disagree with factually speaking is "it's all OK now". And yet, legally speaking, it IS all OK now. I'm certainly not responsible for slavery, nor is anyone currently alive. For that matter, I still firmly believe that on balance, no one currently alive - or at least very few people - have been harmed by slavery.

[Theben]

Originally posted by David Floyd
To combat past discrimination with more discrimination, of course.

Wrong, you lose. To combat past & present discrimination.

I know from personal experience that there are a great deal of things you can and can't put on applications and ask in interviews. You can't, for example, even ask if a candidate is bi-lingual. Given the tons and tons of state and federal regulations regarding employment, some of which are quite silly, I find it hard to imagine that they actually missed something.

AA is code for "All-American", which means white, blond and blue-eyed. The same companies used "Bl" to mean black. These were jotted down anywhere on an app and let the reader know whether or not the applicant was white or black. No it wasn't legal. Yes this was systematic, institutionalized, and within the last 10 years. This is a result of passive racism and you can link it to the legacy of slavery.

Yes, and my point is, white on black violence due to racism is no more or less prevalent than black on white violence due to racism.

Can you point out where any black on white violence or racism was systematic and/or institutionalized? Can you?

Harsher sentences or not, the guilty verdict is what I'm concerned about. As for everyone being more likely to find blacks guilty of violent crimes, well, that's unfortunate, but the process of judicial review has also freed quite a number of blacks who were unjustly imprisoned. My point isn't that there is ZERO racism in the courts, just that there are sufficient checks and balances to account for it.

I think that having 1 out of 3 black males go to prison in their lifetimes doesn't point to "sufficient checks and balances", but your comment of institutional racism as "that's unfortunate" sums up more than anything else you've said here.

Yes, but in the end, a lot of it just boils down to excuses.

So quit making them.