The Canadian Federal Election will probably be October 14th

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
While Quebec's greenhouse gas emission have gone down by 1.2% since 1990, Alberta's have increased by 75%.

I claim bull**** (re: Alberta's numbers). Cite.

All while you massively reduced taxes and repaid your provincial debt. And then you complain that the rules of a FEDERATION you joined WILLINGLY requires you to share part of this money.

I'm just pointing out that a province that sacrifices nothing and basically exists due to the constant subsidies of the rest of Canada is in no position to demand "sacrifice" from a province that was completely raped by the Liberal government not too long ago...

Quebec and Ontario do not have the cash to do this because they haven't had oil royalties to pay their debts.

They mismanage their money. Why should they get more from Alberta, who is actually leading the way on Green research as it is?

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Asher

Have you ever been to Ontario?

Do you know how many ****ing trucks there are? Have you ever been on the 401? How do you think all of these autoplants work with Just-in-time manufacturing?

Alberta uses pipelines to drive the economy, Ontario uses trucks.

Do you have any indication of Ontario needing more trucks per capita than Alberta?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris


Do you have any indication of Ontario needing more trucks per capita than Alberta?

I've lived in both provinces for extended periods of time.

Sorry, what you're claiming is counterintuitive. Prove that Alberta uses trucks just as much as Ontario.

Ontario's massive manufacturing industry should make it obvious who needs more trucks. Honestly...

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Asher

I've lived in both provinces for extended periods of time.

Sorry, what you're claiming is counterintuitive. Prove that Alberta uses trucks just as much as Ontario.

Ontario's massive manufacturing industry should make it obvious who needs more trucks. Honestly...

The GDP % of the service industry is the same in Ontario and Alberta...

Oil gets moved through pipeline admittedly, but the other economic sectors in Alberta need comparatively more trucks than Ontario (due to the overall higher GDP).

Overall, I'm willing to bet that the benefit to Ontario isn't huge - probably 10-20%.

[Fake Boris]

A quick look shows that "transportation and warehousing" represents 3.9% of Ontario's GDP (2006), and 6.1% for Alberta (2003).

The numbers include all forms of transportation (probably including storage of oil), but it's safe to assume that Alberta's overall much higher number would mean no significant disadvantage to them (as per Dion's plan on truckers), as a good portion of it is bound to be trucking.

http://www.wd.gc.ca/8163_ENG_ASP.asp

http://www.2ontario.com/facts/fact02.asp

[CrONoS]

@OB;

I have read your post; I need to leave my home, I'll respond and clarify some point later or tomorrow.

[Wezil]

Trucking is much bigger in ON than AB.

In 2005 there were 1.2 million CMV's in Ontario.

also:

In 1999, Ontario dominated in terms of tonne-kilometres hauled by Canadian-based for-hire carriers. It captured 38 per cent of total intraprovincial traffic, 33 per cent of traffic moved to other provinces, and 46 per cent of total international traffic. Of the 159 billion tonne-kilometres hauled by Canadian truckers in 1999, over 64 billion involved Ontario.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/EN/Report/anre2000/tc0012ce.htm

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Asher
I claim bull**** (re: Alberta's numbers). Cite.

Correct.

After verification, the real number (1990-2005) is Alberta +40%, Quebec +3%.

http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/16-251-XIE/2007000/findings/green-en.htm

However, since 2005, Alberta's numbers are going up while Quebec's have gone down slightly. Also, bear in mind that Alberta's 1990 emissions are already grossly huge (almost twice as Quebec with roughly half population).

If I were a compsci major like you, I'd say something like "Alberta doesn't know how to protect the environment", or "Albertans want to melt polar caps", etc, just like you were claiming that Ontario and Quebec don't know how to manage their money (because they don't happen to be sitting on billions worth of oil).

But since I'm capable of critical thinking, I'll admit that Quebec isn't really "better", it just happens to be sitting on a huge hydro-electric potential.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Wezil
Trucking is much bigger in ON than AB.

In 2005 there were 1.2 million CMV's in Ontario.

also:

In 1999, Ontario dominated in terms of tonne-kilometres hauled by Canadian-based for-hire carriers. It captured 38 per cent of total intraprovincial traffic, 33 per cent of traffic moved to other provinces, and 46 per cent of total international traffic. Of the 159 billion tonne-kilometres hauled by Canadian truckers in 1999, over 64 billion involved Ontario.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/pol/EN/Report/anre2000/tc0012ce.htm

Not sure if you're siding with me or Asher on this, but according to your source:

Ontario, with roughly 38.8% of the total Canadian population, is responsible for 40.5% of truck traffic.

Alberta, with 10.5%, is responsible for 13.3%.

My point has been made that Alberta, on a per-capita basis, doesn't really get shafted.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris


Not sure if you're siding with me or Asher on this, but according to your source:

I'm not trying to side with anyone actually I was just pointing out the dominance of ON trucking in relation to the rest of the industry and adding some numbers to the discussion. I disagree with you about the relative importance. As to whether the Dion proposal is specifically "anti-Alberta", I'll let you two continue to disagree on that.

For the discussion however it must be noted that Harper is proposing a reduction in diesel taxes. Is that pro-ON or anti-AB?

Ontario, with roughly 38.8% of the total Canadian population, is responsible for 40.5% of truck traffic.

Alberta, with 10.5%, is responsible for 13.3%.

My point has been made that Alberta, on a per-capita basis, doesn't really get shafted.

Meh. The counter argument is obvious but I'm not into it tonight.

Stats are hard to come by however. You got my interest with your "transportation and warehousing" cites earlier. As you pointed out, this doesn't necessarily mean "trucking".

[Asher]

Trucking is far bigger in Ontario, period. It's not even worth arguing over.

[Wezil]

Back to an old topic that is resurfacing then.

Is it plagiarism?

"Thinking about things from a new and different perspective is never easy. It takes courage, conviction and the strength to know that in taking a new and innovative course, you are making change for the better. Genuine leaders are the ones who do the right thing."

vs

"Thinking about things from a new and different perspective is not about reading the polls and having focus group tests. It is never easy because it takes courage, conviction and the strength to know that taking a new and innovative course is going to make change for the better. Genuine leaders are the ones who do the right thing."

[Asher]

Who said what?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris

You've already benefitted tremendously from oil money, and you've gained a competitive advantage from that. The time has come for sacrifice, though.

Mighty nice of you to offer sacrifices on behalf of other people.

May I ask why we should threaten prosperity in a region of the country when there are other places in the world that are doing nothing whatsoever to reduce emmissions?

[Asher]

Ah it's more alleged plagiarism from 2003.

At what point does the concept of the Liberal warroom going through line by line for every speech Harper ever made for similarities far more pathetic than the act of plagiarism itself?

The first one...fine.

But now? And 3 lines? Come the **** on. New lows of pathetic.