The Canadian Federal Election will probably be October 14th

[Asher]

It reminds me of Asher and NYE's paranoia crisis about the Liberals' agenda against Alberta.

It's not paranoia. Learn your history. It's a regular pattern, demonstrably so, and the new Green Shift is no different. No one with any brains will argue that it will not hurt Alberta far more than Ontario and Quebec.

[Fake Boris]

The point is that there's a differencce between a conspiracy and a plan that happens to hurt either Quebec/Alberta.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
The point is that there's a differencce between a conspiracy and a plan that happens to hurt either Quebec/Alberta.

Then why do you call it a conspiracy? No one here talks about that except you.

I've CLEARLY and REPEATEDLY discussed that the Liberals simply don't care if they **** up Alberta, not that there is a conspiracy to do it.

Your intellectual dishonesty is both infuriating and not surprising, given your political allegiances, province of origin, and academic studies.

[Fake Boris]

WTF???

I was discussing "paranoia" because Cronos said that artists were paranoiac about Harper slashing cultural subsidies in order to shaft Quebec. And I agreed with his point.

NYE and you have both adopted an ambiguous stance - in suggesting that Dion's plan is to appeal to his base in Ontario and Quebec by shafting Alberta.

The issue is obviously a bit more complex than this. Taxing pollution is unfortunately the only efficient, market-approved way of reducing CO2 emissions.

[Asher]

If he taxed pollution, he'd tax all pollution. The selectivity of it ensures one province is shafted more than the other.

Simple concept, even for filosofers.

[Fake Boris]

And I still wonder why Alberta gets so pissed off - 11% flat income tax + 0 debt.

Why don't you reinvest the oil money into green R&D instead of complaining? The absence of debt and low taxes would already be a huge competitive advantage in attracting investors, and you'd have an industry that will last long beyond the current world dependency on oil.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
And I still wonder why Alberta gets so pissed off - 11% flat income tax + 0 debt.

Not sure why you think provincial government coffers has anything to do with citizens getting shafted by shifted tax burdens federally.

Why don't you reinvest the oil money into green R&D instead of complaining?

They do. Do some basic ****ing research, Ben.

Stelmach just recently committed $2B to carbon capture research, off the top of my head. They also committed another $2B to public transit expansion.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Asher
If he taxed pollution, he'd tax all pollution. The selectivity of it ensures one province is shafted more than the other.

Simple concept, even for filosofers.

We have already discussed this.

He plans to subsidize truckers - this is probably province-neutral, since everyone needs truckers.

He plans to subsidize farmers - this would be a slight advantage to Alberta probably.

He plans to subsidize fishermen - well it's obviously a ploy to get votes in the East. I'm not profoundly outraged though, because they're piss-poor already and sometimes a compromise is necessary to keep a federation up and running.

He doesn't want to tax car manufacturers. Well so what? Gas is taxed anyway, that's where the penalty on car usage will come from.

Alberta Oil will incur massive penalties. OK. Honestly, get over it and use your money to do something useful to the world (see my above post).

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Alberta Oil will incur massive penalties. OK. Honestly, get over it and use your money to do something useful to the world (see my above post).

Alberta is spending far more than any other province in "green R&D". You're simply ****ing misinformed and spreading further lies because you're incapable of the most basic research.

The world is not one giant essay on Kant.

And I honestly do not believe you're stupid enough to think the trucking industry is distributed evenly across Canada. It's not. Ontario is the massive beneficiary there.

You very clearly do not understand the basics of Canada's economy.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Asher

Not sure why you think provincial government coffers has anything to do with citizens getting shafted by shifted tax burdens federally.

You've already benefitted tremendously from oil money, and you've gained a competitive advantage from that. The time has come for sacrifice, though.

They do. Do some basic ****ing research, Ben.

Stelmach just recently committed $2B to carbon capture research, off the top of my head. They also committed another $2B to public transit expansion.

That's excellent. Why don't you admit then that it's time to move on to something else and admit that oil will make the junk of history?

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Asher

Alberta is spending far more than any other province in "green R&D". You're simply ****ing misinformed and spreading further lies because you're incapable of the most basic research.

I didn't know that, but now that the point has been made, no need to bang on a dead horse.

And I honestly do not believe you're stupid enough to think the trucking industry is distributed evenly across Canada. It's not. Ontario is the massive beneficiary there.

You very clearly do not understand the basics of Canada's economy.

Maybe, but go ahead and tell me why.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
You've already benefitted tremendously from oil money, and you've gained a competitive advantage from that. The time has come for sacrifice, though.

The time of sacrifice has passed. Alberta has sacrificed far more than Quebec in the past 30 years. Don't even try to pretend otherwise.

That's excellent. Why don't you admit then that it's time to move on to something else and admit that oil will make the junk of history?

What the ****?

Seriously?

Alberta is the #1 province by far in "green R&D" spending. They're looking into adding even more money and DO plan to make Alberta one of the leading areas for climate research. They're also spending more money on public transit expansion than other provinces also -- how much has Ontario firmly committed in recent years? Quebec?

Alberta is using its oil wealth to fund research and improve infrastructure to be more environmentally friendly. They've begun planning a transition to nuclear power over coal as well.

But Alberta needs money to do this. The Green Shift would ruin such plans by PUNISHING Alberta now and TAKING that money, SHIFTING it out of the province. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Alberta needs money to make the drastic changes, but you want to take that money away and have the balls to say it's time for Alberta to "sacrifice".

It's clear both you and Mr. Dion have no concept at all how this will affect Alberta and Alberta's economy. Adopting the plan will drive foreign investment from Alberta, it will increase the tax burden on Alberta companies and regular Albertans significantly, and all to give tax breaks to people in vote-rich Ontario and Quebec.

It's time for Quebec to sacrifice -- stop taking our money.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris

Maybe, but go ahead and tell me why.

Have you ever been to Ontario?

Do you know how many ****ing trucks there are? Have you ever been on the 401? How do you think all of these autoplants work with Just-in-time manufacturing?

Alberta uses pipelines to drive the economy, Ontario uses trucks.

[Asher]

Another thing that I just remembered -- they're building a new research complex at the University of Calgary dedicated to environmental research, especially as it relates to the energy industry.

It's getting $260M in funding from the Alberta gov't:

http://www.ucalgary.ca/eeel/

It's main purpose is to provide state of the art labs and facilities for 1,000 new students in new Energy and the Environment undergrad and grad programs.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Asher

The time of sacrifice has passed. Alberta has sacrificed far more than Quebec in the past 30 years. Don't even try to pretend otherwise.


What the ****?

Seriously?

While Quebec's greenhouse gas emission have gone down by 1.2% since 1990, Alberta's have increased by 75%.

All while you massively reduced taxes and repaid your provincial debt. And then you complain that the rules of a FEDERATION you joined WILLINGLY requires you to share part of this money.

You remind me of Kaak complaining that his father making 500k a year was in a higher tax bracket.

Seriously, WTF?

But Alberta needs money to do this. The Green Shift would ruin such plans by PUNISHING Alberta now and TAKING that money, SHIFTING it out of the province. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Alberta needs money to make the drastic changes, but you want to take that money away and have the balls to say it's time for Alberta to "sacrifice".

Quebec and Ontario do not have the cash to do this because they haven't had oil royalties to pay their debts.

It's clear both you and Mr. Dion have no concept at all how this will affect Alberta and Alberta's economy. Adopting the plan will drive foreign investment from Alberta, it will increase the tax burden on Alberta companies and regular Albertans significantly, and all to give tax breaks to people in vote-rich Ontario and Quebec.

It's time for Quebec to sacrifice -- stop taking our money.

OK, you reduce greenhouse gas emissions to 1% below '90 level. In exchange we don't take a penny of equalization. Deal?