The Canadian Federal Election will probably be October 14th

[Asher]

I'd prefer she was in the debate. Two outcomes will occur:

1) She'll steal more of the vote from the Evil Liberals
2) She'll make Harper look positively sane by comparison

[Asher]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/story/2008/09/12/elxn-poll.html

Conservatives gaining momentum on campaign trail: poll
Tories winning over women, urban voters, survey suggests

The Conservatives have continued to gain ground after the first several days of the Oct. 14 federal election campaign, according to a newly released poll.

Nationally, the Conservatives lead with 41 per cent of the public's support, followed by the Liberals at 26 per cent, while the NDP are at 14 per cent support, said the Canadian Press-Harris/Decima rolling survey, in partnership with the CBC.

The Green Party trails with nine per cent support, while eight per cent of respondents said they favoured the Bloc Québécois.

"This snapshot that we have here will be good news for the Conservative Party," the CBC's David Taylor said Friday following the release of the results.

Harris/Decima president Bruce Anderson described the Conservative momentum as "remarkable," saying the party has gained ground in key subgroups that have eluded them in the past, including urban Canada and women.

Anderson said the boost in support among the groups can be attributed to the party's "massive" advertising campaign compared to the other parties. The Tory ads "have largely been right on the mark in terms of what they needed to accomplish," he said.

Poll respondents were asked for their party preference, second choice, their favourite party leader, as well as how they define themselves as voters. They were also asked whether they had seen campaign advertisements and to what extent they were influenced by them.

The Harris/Decima poll interviewed roughly 300 Canadians every night, as part of a rolling nationwide survey that will continue throughout the election campaign. The sample represents a total of 1,406 interviews gathered between Sept. 8 and 11.

The poll's margin of error is 2.6 per cent, 19 times out of 20.

[Wezil]

What a pathetic excuse for a CanPol thread. It doesn't help when the thread starter spews falsehoods.

Originally posted by Asher


I can see why you didn't link it, and it's because in the letter he clearly specifies the opinion he is epousing is that of the Canadian Alliance, and not his own views.

I'm sure I don't need to explain to you how party politics work in Canada.

The letter says:

"The Canadian Alliance – the official Opposition in Parliament – supports the American and British position because we share their concerns, their worries about the future if Iraq is left unattended to, and their fundamental vision of civilization and human values."

Yes Asher, as leader of the party he was only the ****ing messenger. He didn't actually support the policy.

Opposition leader Stephen Harper has told Fox News in the U.S. that most Canadians outside Quebec support the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, despite our government's decision not to take part in the war.

In an interview with the American TV network, Harper said he endorsed the war and said he was speaking "for the silent majority" of Canadians. Only in Quebec, with its "pacifist tradition," are most people opposed to the war, Harper said.

"Outside of Quebec, I believe very strongly the silent majority of Canadians is strongly supportive," the Canadian Alliance leader says.

In a segment to be broadcast across the U.S. and in 41 countries Friday night and repeated on the weekend, Harper says Ottawa's position on the war is hypocritical.

"We have a government here that says Saddam Hussein is a war criminal and maintains diplomatic relations with him during the conflict," he said.

"We have a government that says they're not supportive of the conflict but it becomes more and more obvious that we have Canadian soldiers and sailors involved in the conflict."

Harper has led the criticism in recent weeks over Prime Minister Jean Chretien's refusal to back the U.S. in its efforts in Iraq. On Thursday, the House of Commons debated a motion Harper tabled that called on Ottawa to back the U.S. in its war in Iraq and apologize for a slew of anti-American comments made by senior Liberals.

Harper told the House that Canada's position "diminishes only us," and added, "We are lucky to have the Americans as our neighbour, ally and friend.

"They are our biggest asset in this very dangerous world," said the Alliance leader.

Deputy Prime Minister John Manley told the House Canada's "thoughts and prayers" are with the U.S. but said the decision not to go to war is "consistent with decades of Canadian policy."

"It was our hope that by authorizing greater time for inspections that a broader consensus could emerge in the international community that it was necessary for the use of force," Manley said.

"We have stood apart because we believe it is the Security Council of the United Nations that ought to take responsibility for authorizing force."

Despite the fact that Canada isn't participating, Manley says Canada and the U.S. have "remained steadfast allies."

"Canada stands with its friends even if we cannot engage with them in this conflict," he added.

The motion also called on the government to "express its regret and apologize for offensive and inappropriate statements made against the United States of America by certain members of this House."

Such statements included remarks by a trio of Liberals -- including Natural Resources Minister Herb Dhaliwal, who last week said U.S. President George Bush had let the world down by "not being a statesman" -- have cast a further shadow on the links between the two neighbours.

The comments have raised the ire of U.S. officials, including Ambassador Paul Cellucci who slammed Canada's stance in a speech last week, and Richard Perle, an influential advisor to the Bush administration, who called Chretien a "lame duck" in an interview published Thursday in the National Post.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1049464033397_20?s_name=&no_ads=

Just for you Asher - not a Sun article.

I'm surprised you missed this bit of our history. Perhaps you were out of the country at the time?

Or maybe it was the same location as when you ****ed up about Harper not wanting Elizabeth May at the debate. Turns out this was true also but I didn't see your mea culpa yet.

If you want a good CanPol debate Asher you might start with a wee bit of honesty. You are far better than your posts in this thread.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Wezil
What a pathetic excuse for a CanPol thread. It doesn't help when the thread starter spews falsehoods.


Yes Asher, as leader of the party he was only the ****ing messenger. He didn't actually support the policy.

Since when was Harper leader of the party back then...?

I'm surprised you missed this bit of our history.

You evidently have your own twisted history.

[Wezil]

Alright, stick to that course Asher. It is why Poly is such a fine debate location these days. /sarcasm

Look at the first TWO WORDS of the article Asher - "Opposition leader". Hmm. What does that tell you?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Wezil
Alright, stick to that course Asher. It is why Poly is such a fine debate location these days. /sarcasm

Look at the first TWO WORDS of the article Asher - "Opposition leader". Hmm. What does that tell you?

You are confusing the two articles. The letter he wrote to the WSJ was when he wasn't leader, which is what I said. That is not a falsehood, even though you are trying to spin it as such.

As for the other article, you didnt quote the date. Was it right after he took power? If so, between party politics and the opposition party (which by default can't agree with the ruling party), it's no surprise.

[Wezil]

The point you were disputing was this:

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
And Harper is against Iraq in hindsight. He would have gone there had he been given the choice 5 years ago.

Why can you not admit you were wrong? It really isn't a sign of weakness you know.

[Asher]

I hadn't seen the article you posted much later until now. And since you were douchey with your approach and decided to misrepresent my post, I decided not to.

I'm still not sure because of the party politics we have in Canada. The opposition opposes anything the ruling party does as a rule.

[Wezil]

YOU cannot criticize others for being "douchey'. Period.

As to the second part - fair enough. Just b/c he opposed in Opposition doesn't necessarily mean he would have done anything different in Government. All we have is what he said.

[Fake Boris]

Wow Asher, you're out of this world.

Harper intervened at the House of Common 37 times on the issue of Iraq, between October 2002 and May 2003.

Feel free to ramble on about him being a puppet victim of the Canadian Alliance...

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Wow Asher, you're out of this world.

Harper intervened at the House of Common 37 times on the issue of Iraq, between October 2002 and May 2003.

Feel free to ramble on about him being a puppet victim of the Canadian Alliance...

He was not the leader at that time, and you do what you're told if you want to stay in the good graces of the party.

What is so hard to understand?

[Ben Kenobi]

Wow Asher, that's pretty hard to believe.

[Asher]

Mutiny ahoy.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080915.welectionliberals16/BNStory/politics

Insiders hint at unrest in Liberal ranks
JANE TABER

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

September 15, 2008 at 10:28 PM EDT

OTTAWA — Stéphane Dion's Liberals are becoming frustrated over their lacklustre start in the election campaign, a lack of coherent message and theme and confusion as to who is in charge.

As the Liberal Leader begins his second full week of campaigning, one veteran MP said there is “a lot of soul-searching right now about what the Liberal Party did” in choosing Mr. Dion as leader.

“Everybody looks in the mirror all of a sudden at a potential disaster and then they start saying, ‘could they have made a better choice to make it easier for themselves,' ” the MP said. “But I am sure there are some members who are actually pinching themselves …”

However, there is no sense yet of “any kind of mutiny,” said the MP, adding, however, that Mr. Dion “needs to refocus or recalibrate.”

Last week, when the Tories were making gaffes – communications director Ryan Sparrow was fired over an inappropriate statement – life on the campaign trail wasn't going well for the Grits either. Mr. Dion has yet to “get some traction with the public,” a source said.

Significant, however, is the fact that senior campaign strategists, including campaign director Gordon Ashworth and party pollster Michael Marzolini, are being marginalized, according to an inside source.

Their advice is not being heeded. “Nothing [Mr. Marzolini] has done has had any affect,” the source said.

It seems, too, that Mr. Dion and his chief of staff, Johanne Senecal, are calling the shots on the campaign, said the source: “She's sending the directives on the campaign because everything is being determined by him as far as we can tell.”

As well, the Liberals were slow in getting out television ads, ceding that ground to the Tories and allowing them to define Mr. Dion's leadership, because the leader vetoed ads that were to be broadcast last week. An English-language ad came out Monday that looks at the Green Shift plan and tries to contrast Mr. Dion's leadership with that of Conservative Leader Stephen Harper.

“The ads were rejigged to suit the leader's preferences,” according to a well-placed source. “No leader has ever vetted his own ads.” Element Agency, a firm in Vancouver, is the Liberal ad company.

Meanwhile, the main complaint from senior Liberals is that the campaign has no coherent theme: “They don't seem to see one there. They are seeing very random and non-planned [events] …,” the well-placed source said.

Some eyebrows were raised among senior Liberals, including some MPs, over the way the tour and events were conducted last week.

Why, they wondered, did Mr. Dion go to a high school in Walkerton, Ont., to talk to about 600 students – only a handful of whom could vote – about meat inspection? There was also some confusion about the point of a roundtable discussion of female candidates in Streetsville, Ont. The candidates, some of whom were incumbents, listened to Mr. Dion extol the virtues of female MPs and then spoke around the table to each other, not taking questions.

“It was kind of bizarre,” said a Liberal who attended the event. “I never understood who dreamed that concept up. He [Mr. Dion] didn't really have an announcement. I didn't understand what our messaging was.”

The other issue revolves around the communication of the main Dion platform piece – his Green Shift plan to put a tax on carbon fuels and shift the revenue to tax cuts for Canadians.

Some candidates and their volunteers are having trouble explaining the program at the door. One campaign worker said that the national campaign has not supplied any materials to help, such as brochures, buttons and talking points.

Sources say that Mr. Marzolini spoke about the problems with communicating the plan at the recent caucus meeting in Winnipeg. He said, according to the sources, to simply wave it and say that “this is our plan” but not to read from it, as Mr. Dion has done at some events.

“You wave it. You don't read from it, you don't refer to it,” said the source about what the pollster told the national Liberal caucus. “You wave it and say, ‘This is our plan, we have a plan, we've got the people, we can make a difference. ... I share your values, I share your hopes, your dreams, your aspirations …' ”

It's not surprising that among some Liberals this week there is sense of “resignation to do our best,” says the well-placed source. Others say candidates are concentrating on their ridings and their own campaigns as opposed to worrying about the national campaign.

And Liberals are putting many of their hopes on a stand-out performance by Mr. Dion at the October leadership debates, sources say.

But one veteran Liberal MP said it's simply too early in the campaign to write ff Mr. Dion and the party. The immigration policy announced on Saturday is playing well in various communities, the MP said.

As well, there is a sense that the Harper Tories are peaking too early.

“There is only one way to go, down. And down he [Mr. Harper] will go,” the MP said.

[Asher]

This just in: Harper is personally responsible for global economic woes.

http://www.thestar.com/FederalElection/article/499876

PM blasted on economy
Dion accuses Harper of doing nothing as Wall Street turmoil stirs fear in Canada

OTTAWA–Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion seized on the shock waves from North American financial markets yesterday to renew accusations that Stephen Harper's Conservatives have sat back while Canada's once-strong economy has gone into a tailspin.

"Stephen Harper has allowed what was a booming economy to hit a brick wall," Dion said during a campaign stop in St. John's, Nfld.

The Conservatives' economic policies have "given to us the worst economic performance since 1991, since (former Progressive Conservative prime minister) Brian Mulroney," Dion said.

But Harper played down the tide of bad economic news from Wall Street and Bay Street.

"My own belief is if we were going to have some kind of big crash or recession, we probably would have had it by now, a year into the crisis," the Conservative leader said.

The Toronto stock market plunged more than 500 points yesterday, in large part because of tumbling energy stocks as oil prices closed below $100 (U.S.) a barrel for the first time in six months.

The market was also hurt by financial stocks after two more big U.S. investment banks and a leading insurer were overwhelmed by the collapse of the American housing sector and securities that financed the real estate bubble.

Dion, whose campaign arrives tonight in London, Ont., plans to keep the seething economic crisis front and centre as he campaigns in Ontario, which is suffering near-recessionary conditions, the loss of 200,000 manufacturing jobs in the past few years and now a deteriorating stock market.

Yesterday, Dion said, the first half of the year in Canada "has been worst of all the G-8 countries regarding economic growth. There is no reason that Canada is suffering such a low economic growth except for the mismanagement of Stephen Harper."

Dion said that, as badly as the United States has performed economically, Canada has done worse.

"Their (the United States') first six months have been better than ours in terms of economic growth.

"(Harper) made bad choices in the way he spends. He spent more than any other government before him," he said. "We've got to stop going in the direction that Mr. Harper is sending us and that is deficit and recession."

Harper, meanwhile, urged "a more sober analysis" of the global economic woes.

People should not "turn to complete doom and gloom" scenarios, he said at a news conference.

Hurt by the slowdown in the United States, Canada's most important export market, the Canadian economy in the first half of this year turned in one of its weakest performances since the early 1990s, barely escaping negative growth.

Last October, Finance Minister Jim Flaherty predicted economic expansion of 2.4 per cent for 2008. But he has repeatedly been forced to scale back his forecast, now at a meagre 1 per cent for this year.

And, despite inheriting an annual federal budget surplus of $13 billion from the previous government, the fiscal situation under the Conservatives has reached a point where some economists warn that Ottawa could easily slip into a budget deficit this year for the first time since 1996.

But Harper said yesterday the Conservative party projects a slight budget surplus this year. Government revenues are expected to be a bit better than forecast, he said.

Harper said that while news in the United States is "obviously not good," the fact is the "American economy has not crashed and not entered recession in all of this."

He said the U.S. economy has "shown considerable resiliency from time to time" and nobody should "throw in the towel."

In Canada, Harper said, the financial services and housing sectors are strong, and this country is unlikely to feel the same effects.

But Harper warned that Canada needs "continual managing of the slowdown in growth.

"Obviously this is a time that requires prudence ... this is not the time for wild experiments in new taxes or grand spending schemes," he said.

New Democratic Party Leader Jack Layton said Canadian regulations have sheltered the economy from much of the storm south of the border, but more reforms to protect investors are needed.

"We are able to retain some confidence at this point in time in Canadian banks," Layton said at a campaign event at Dalhousie University in Halifax yesterday.

"It appears that our more robust, regulatory strategy under the (Canadian) Bank Act has to date protected us to some degree, but I believe with what we're seeing in the risky practices that have been adopted south of the border that more steps are going to be needed here in Canada."

He said the Sarbanes-Oxley Act in the United States prevents the creation of two levels of shareholders, something the Canadian Bank Act does not have.

"In the U.S. you don't have these two levels of shares where a great many shareholders here in Canada may own shares, but have no ability to really hold the administration to account," he said.

"There are some reforms that we could be and should be looking at here in Canada that could help protect investors."

A Liberal strategist said Dion will continue to hammer Harper on the economy this week as the Liberal campaign shakes up its message in a bid to land some blows on the Conservatives before Canadians go to the polls Oct. 14.

Dion will charge that Conservative cuts to income tax and the GST have emptied the federal coffers to the point where Ottawa teeters on the brink of deficit with little room to weather the storm.

"We're on the brink of red ink. You can't blame the world economy for that. That is wholly a function of their decisions," the strategist said.

Liberals also think Harper is vulnerable on the "indifference" he is showing to the thousands of manufacturing jobs lost in Ontario – and the toll it has taken on individuals and communities.

"Their vulnerabilities are crystal clear ... a weakening economic situation and his indifference to it," the strategist said.

But the new focus on the economic woes also marks a recognition within the Liberal camp that changes were needed to help Dion make more of an impression on voters. "Now is the time to make an adjustment that will work," the strategist said.

[Flubber]

What has been most interesting to me so far has been how bad the campaigns generally have been. Is it not possible for a major party to run a solid campaign without major miscues? Its not like this election call was some kind of secret