What is this man saying?

[Zkribbler]

I'm reading Fareed Zakaria's The Post American World. Zakaria opines the Third World is rapidly becoming more modern but not more Western. He distinguishes these two terms with the explanation:

Becoming a modern society is about industialization, urbanization, and rising levels of literacy, education and wealth. The qualities that make a society Western, in contrast, are special: the classical legacy, Christianity, the separation of church and state, the rule of law, civil society.

I cannot figure out what he means, in the context, by the phrase "civil society." Can someone help me out?

Why, for example, is Beijing lacking in a civil society?

[David Floyd]

Maybe because they are cheating in the Olympics?

[snoopy369]

1. He is saying nothing at all. Trust me.

2. Presumably by 'civil society' he refers to a Lockian idea of civil society? In other words, 'belonging' to a civil society, as the primary element of belonging (over family or caste or tribe); that is a western concept, which is not necessarily the case elsewhere (ie, believing you are an American, first, rather than an Aryan or a Frank or a Slav or whatever your ethnic/tribal descent is).
http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_ml...628_index.html for example as it refers to China specifically.

[Zkribbler]

Maybe because they are cheating in the Olympics?

And in the little-girl-signing part as well.

[BeBMan]

Shamelessly stolen from Wiki (OMG), a modern def from the London School of Economics:

Civil society refers to the arena of uncoerced collective action around shared interests, purposes and values. In theory, its institutional forms are distinct from those of the state, family and market, though in practice, the boundaries between state, civil society, family and market are often complex, blurred and negotiated. Civil society commonly embraces a diversity of spaces, actors and institutional forms, varying in their degree of formality, autonomy and power. Civil societies are often populated by organizations such as registered charities, development non-governmental organizations, community groups, women's organizations, faith-based organizations, professional associations, trade unions, self-help groups, social movements, business associations, coalitions and advocacy groups.

Plus some more stuff from them: http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/CCS...il_society.htm

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by snoopy369
1. He is saying nothing at all. Trust me.

2. Presumably by 'civil society' he refers to a Lockian idea of civil society? ...

You mention of Locke rang a bell. So I wandered over to Wikipedia and found this:

Civil society is composed of the totality of voluntary civic and social organizations and institutions that form the basis of a functioning society as opposed to the force-backed structures of a state (regardless of that state's political system) and commercial institutions.

This sounds like the old "Social Contract" theory, which I never bought into. I.e. We entered into a society with a government when we entered into a contract, and the government has only the power over us which we granted it.

Edit: Where it would have an application though is the West's belief in limited government. China and other nations in the developing world don't embrace this concept. Oh, and this would also give rise to "civil rights," something the Chinese definitely don't have!

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Edit: Where it would have an application though is the West's belief in limited government. China and other nations in the developing world don't embrace this concept. Oh, and this would also give rise to "civil rights," something the Chinese definitely don't have!

IIRC it is indeed often used to indicate that a society allows more input from citizens or non-state orgs as opposed to a state where the gov decides everything "from above".

[Ben Kenobi]

2. Presumably by 'civil society' he refers to a Lockian idea of civil society

Given that it's Zakharia, I'd look more to Voltaire and Rousseau. Essentially he's saying that they are modern, but 'unEnlightened' for lack of a better term.

[Maniac]

Christianity, the separation of church and state

Anyone else find this funny?

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Given that it's Zakharia, I'd look more to Voltaire and Rousseau. Essentially he's saying that they are modern, but 'unEnlightened' for lack of a better term.

How are they different from Americans then?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by DaShi


How are they different from Americans then?

Someone hand me my fish.

[DaShi]

[Victor Galis]

You might want to look into Burke and his "little platoons."

Basically, the presence of civil society means that there are various NGOs which are active and independent. (Essentially people with a like interest have some organizations that can stand up for their interests so that the government, big corportations, revolutionaries, etc. don't trample all over them.)