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It's war. Part III

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  • #466
    Originally posted by snoopy369
    I think the lies and hypocrisies lie on both sides, Serb (forgive the pun). I'll be the first to admit that the West demonizes Russia excessively, both because you're the old target and thus convenient, and because you're still a significant power (and thus you really are the enemy, sort of).
    It certainly could not have to do with the fact that they have historically been brutal and imperialistic...and that reports out of Georgia indicate that they are brutal and imperialistic. It must just be because it is "convienient". Yeah...that's it.
    "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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    • #467
      Originally posted by Lancer
      Be nice to our friend Serb, he loves his country. He must not leave his friends here.
      Yeah. You're right.

      Sorry Serb. Don't go. In spite of your blindness and patriotism, I enjoy your posts and your knowledge...even if it is highly tainted.
      "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

      Comment

      • #468
        Don't forget about the superlative readiness of the Russian Navy:

        The war started on Friday August 8th; the Black Sea Fleet was reported to arrive off the coast of Georgia on Saturday August 9th. That's pretty impressive, considering it is about 400 nautical miles from Sevastopol to Ochamchire. While the Moskva, Smetlivy, Muromets, and Aleksandrovets can make good speed and make the trip quickly, those ships sailed from Sevastopol with an assortment of support vessels that could only make 12-16 knots, at best. Simple math reveals that would make it a 25 hour trip, meaning the ships would have had to put to sea almost immediately after the fighting began. For any fleet to deploy that quickly is extraordinary readiness.
        Page Not Found
        http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/08/while-the-media.html

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        • #469
          Readiness.
          Long time member @ Apolyton
          Civilization player since the dawn of time

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          • #470
            Originally posted by Saras


            Yes how could I, the goody good, noble knights of the Russian Army, always on the lookout to save kittens and puppies and old ladies.
            Damn right.

            WILL YOU EVER FORGIVE ME?
            OF COURSE NOT.

            Comment

            • #471
              Originally posted by Lancer
              Readiness.
              Cold blooded calculated provocations
              Originally posted by Serb:Please, remind me, how exactly and when exactly, Russia bullied its neighbors?
              Originally posted by Ted Striker:Go Serb !
              Originally posted by Pekka:If it was possible to capture the essentials of Sepultura in a dildo, I'd attach it to a bicycle and ride it up your azzes.

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              • #472
                Originally posted by Serb


                When you see your neighbour is pumping up its military and have a desire to reconquer its breakaway province you obledged to protect, you bring more stuff to the scene. Sure we knew something is coming since Sukashvili started to amass its forces around the SO border.


                I must admit that russia was pretty succesful in the trap they set up. First of all, the 58 ready, then SO militias killing civilians ad libitum - Georgia has the choice to watch the murders continue or try to protect them. They took the valiant point and descided to protect the innocent, wich of course gave the russian army the excuse to attack and protect SO militias in their "cleaning" activities.
                With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                Steven Weinberg

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                • #473
                  Originally posted by Whoha
                  Don't forget about the superlative readiness of the Russian Navy:


                  http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/0...the-media.html
                  At 16 knots it takes only a little over 22 hours to travel 400 nautical miles. Does the Russin Black Sea Fleet need its support vessels right on the front line when deploying over such a short distance? Furthermore, wouldn't it make sense to deply the support ships well behind the main body of the fleet?
                  "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

                  Comment

                  • #474
                    Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


                    At 16 knots it takes only a little over 22 hours to travel 400 nautical miles. Does the Russin Black Sea Fleet need its support vessels right on the front line when deploying over such a short distance? Furthermore, wouldn't it make sense to deply the support ships well behind the main body of the fleet?
                    Do you have any idea how long it normally takes a naval vessel to get underway? To sail almost immediately upon initiation of hostilities boggles the mind.

                    I might buy it if they were already at sea, but to be in port and put to sea right away....
                    "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                    Comment

                    • #475
                      Originally posted by Saras


                      Cold blooded calculated provocations
                      OMG, Serb is R I G H T! Here Saras replied to my advocating readiness by advocating..'Cold blooded calculated provocations '


                      NATO is teh evil!
                      Long time member @ Apolyton
                      Civilization player since the dawn of time

                      Comment

                      • #476
                        Originally posted by Kuciwalker


                        Iraq is on the opposite side of the planet. I'd like to see you invade Costa Rica on short notice.
                        We did not invade Iraq on short notice.
                        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                        Comment

                        • #477
                          Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles


                          We did not invade Iraq on short notice.
                          Quite rigth, but the russian invaded georgia in that way
                          With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                          Steven Weinberg

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                          • #478
                            Originally posted by PLATO


                            Do you have any idea how long it normally takes a naval vessel to get underway? To sail almost immediately upon initiation of hostilities boggles the mind.
                            Well, if they knew that hostilities was just around the corner, it's not that mindboggling
                            With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                            Steven Weinberg

                            Comment

                            • #479
                              Originally posted by BlackCat


                              Well, if they knew that hostilities was just around the corner, it's not that mindboggling
                              Exactly.

                              Funny how there is no mention in the UNSC about this great amount of intelligence that they had of a Georgian attack...
                              "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                              Comment

                              • #480
                                Originally posted by PLATO


                                Do you have any idea how long it normally takes a naval vessel to get underway? To sail almost immediately upon initiation of hostilities boggles the mind.

                                I might buy it if they were already at sea, but to be in port and put to sea right away....
                                Do the Russians never patrol the Black Sea? Do the support ships always arrive at the same time as the main body of the fleet? Wouldn't a fleet generally deploy the support vessles under escort well behind the main body? Is there an actual report of support vessels arriving at the area at the same time as the warships? What is the fast cruising speed of the types of warships deployed to the coast of Georgia on August 9.


                                No one has yet detailed the types of attacks allegedly staged by the South Ossetians prior to the Georgian attack. Were there in fact civilian casualties? I find it odd that even as the first reports of the beginning of this incident reached the international media the Georgians made reference to attacks by the South Ossetians, but not to civilian casualties inflicted.

                                Also, the fact that Saakashvilli called a unilateral cease fire indicates that there had been exchanges of fire prior to August 8. Who fired first? It's a pity that we have been ablle to send weapons to Georgia but not neutral observers.
                                "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

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