It's war. Part III

[Saras]

Originally posted by Serb


Yes, it's only 37 000 personel, but it's "modern" and "well-trained". Sure Russia has a much more soldiers, but we relocated about 10 000 of our soldiers to fight Georgians in South Ossetia. So we didn't have a number superiority when we completely ****ed them within five days.

So you compare apples with oranges. GO RUSSIA, and facts be damned!

[Serb]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Who claimed the Georgian army was superior to the Russians in any regard?

It's obvious thet are not.

They primarily use your own worthless crap equitment.

They have been trained and supplied by YOU for years. Georgia has the most militarized budged in the whole world. Their official military budget is about 1 billion USD, while the country's GDP is about 10 billions. Since Sukashvili took the power Georgian military budget increased 30 times.

"Georgia has received 206 tanks, of which 175 units were supplied by NATO states, 186 armored vehicles (126 - from NATO), 79 guns (67 - from NATO), 25 helicopters (12 - from NATO), 70 mortars, ten surface-to-air missile systems, eight Israeli-made unmanned aircraft, and other weapons. In addition, NATO countries have supplied four combat aircraft to Georgia. The Russian Defense Ministry said there were plans to deliver to Georgia 145 armored vehicles, 262 guns and mortars, 14 combat aircraft including four Mirazh-2000 destroyers, 25 combat helicopters, 15 American Black Hawk aircraft, six surface-to-air missile systems and other arms." (Interfax News Agency, Moscow, in Russian, Aug 7, 2008)
Although not officially a member of NATO, Georgia's military is full integrated into NATO procedures. In 2005, Georgian president proudly announced the inauguration of the first military base, which "fully meets NATO standards". Immediately following the inauguration of the Senakskaya base in west Georgia, Tblisi announced the opening of a second military base at Gori which would also "comply with NATO regulations in terms of military requirements as well as social conditions."

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9788

You trained them:
Georgia_Train_and_Equip_Program

GSSOP

and suplied them with your harware, but it's true that the bulk of their weaponry is of Soviet origin. Just like the Polish army or other East European members of NATO. Still, before their humilating defeat the Georgian Armed Forces have been seen as a modern and well-trained force, the most battle ready force among all ex-Soviet republics.

But feel free to through the T-62s that you rolled into Georgia against the Turkish Leo2s.

We didn't use a single T-62 in South Ossetia, 'cause we don't use them anymore. Nowdays Russian MBTs are T-72, T-80 and T-90.

Serb, man. Dude. Buddy. Really, for your sake, please stop using that. I am embarrassed for you everytime you do.

Then wake-up already. We kicked your student's arses easily, if you think that Turkish army is better trained and equiped than the Georgian army was, then you are dreaming.

[PLATO]

Let's see...

Russia takes 5 days to defeat 37,000 man army(partially equipped with western hardware) in 2008 .

US/Britian/France (primarily) take 48 hours to defeat 550,000 man force (primarily equipped with best Soviet hardware) in 1991.

I guess you guys are "badass".

The Russian military is a joke by Western standards by nearly any measure Serb. The only people in the world that don't know it are the Russians.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Perhaps you might find this paper more interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

I believe that article also mentions that the avowed purpose of the CPC was to dissmember Russia as well as Georgia. Does it make sense to you that the Russians would fund an organization whose charter essentially declared war upon Russia?

Can you explain to me why if Russia didn't support the SO rebels, why it was that they made no move to stop thier provocative actions (shelling Georgian villages) against Georgia proper or why they rode in with Russian columns?

Shelling a few villages is equivalent to an all out bombardment on a city?

[Patroklos]

It's obvious thet are not.

Then your original comment...

"Just like the "wastly superior" Georgian army equipped with western hardware and trained by US instructors did against the Russians?"

Makes no sense, because in reality we had two vodka smelling drunks beat each other with the same damn nerf bats.

They have been trained and supplied by YOU for years. Georgia has the most militarized budged in the whole world. Their official military budget is about 1 billion USD, while the country's GDP is about 10 billions. Since Sukashvili took the power Georgian military budget increased 30 times.

So?

"Georgia has received 206 tanks, of which 175 units were supplied by NATO states, 186 armored vehicles (126 - from NATO), 79 guns (67 - from NATO), 25 helicopters (12 - from NATO), 70 mortars, ten surface-to-air missile systems, eight Israeli-made unmanned aircraft, and other weapons. In addition, NATO countries have supplied four combat aircraft to Georgia. The Russian Defense Ministry said there were plans to deliver to Georgia 145 armored vehicles, 262 guns and mortars, 14 combat aircraft including four Mirazh-2000 destroyers, 25 combat helicopters, 15 American Black Hawk aircraft, six surface-to-air missile systems and other arms." (Interfax News Agency, Moscow, in Russian, Aug 7, 2008)

Ummm, yeah, like I said mostly old crappy Soviet/Russian equipment.

Although not officially a member of NATO, Georgia's military is full integrated into NATO procedures. In 2005, Georgian president proudly announced the inauguration of the first military base, which "fully meets NATO standards". Immediately following the inauguration of the Senakskaya base in west Georgia, Tblisi announced the opening of a second military base at Gori which would also "comply with NATO regulations in terms of military requirements as well as social conditions."

All that means it the barracks had roofs, indoor toilets, and non dirt floors, unlike their Russian counterparts.



Really, are you going to provide anything relevant to you original comment?

We didn't use a single T-62 in South Ossetia, 'cause we don't use them anymore. Nowdays Russian MBTs are T-72, T-80 and T-90.

ORLY???

A howitzer flying a Russian flag rumbled past, followed by dusty T-62 and T-72 tanks, armoured personnel carriers, missiles and mobile pontoon bridges on the mountain pass leading to the Roki Tunnel, which connects Russia to South Ossetia.

T-62s asside, the fact that you still have T-72s doing anything other than gathering dust in museums is lauchable in its own right.

Then wake-up already. We kicked your student's arses easily, if you think that Turkish army is better trained and equiped than the Georgian army was, then you are dreaming.

Seriously? Did you just actually say this?

[Serb]

Originally posted by Saras


No one. We just want your peackeepers stopped somewhere on the outskirts of Vilnius, not Kaunas.

And what if Soviets would try to restore "the constitutional order" in Lithuania the same exact way like Sukashvili tried in South Ossetia - by bombing its capital?
Would you support alike bombardment of Vilnus to bring some Soviet "constitutional order" to its rioting province?

Face it dudde - you are just a ****ing hypocrite.
Have a nice day.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Serb

They have been trained and supplied by YOU for years. Georgia has the most militarized budged in the whole world. Their official military budget is about 1 billion USD, while the country's GDP is about 10 billions. Since Sukashvili took the power Georgian military budget increased 30 times.

So this is your response? We know you're a factually challenged putinjugend boy, but you did not provide a single argument saying that fronline equipment was NOT Russsian/Soviet. But it's really easy, just go to wikipedia:

Main battle tanks

* T-72 - 82 incl. T-72A, T-72B/B1, T-72M and T-72 SIM-1[6]
* T-55 - 110 incl. T-55M/AM and T-55AM2

AIFVs/APCs

* BMP-1 - 80 units, some upgraded with Shkval 30mm turret
* BMP-2 - 58 units
* BTR-80 - 21 units
* MT-LB - 64 units
* Otokar Cobra - 100

Towed artillery

* 2A36 Giatsint-B - 12 units
* 2A65 Msta-B - 18 units
* 2A18 (D-30) - 100 units

Self-propelled artillery

* 2S7 Pion - 1 unit
* 2S19 Msta-S - 3 units
* 2S3 Akatsiya - 13 units
* VZ 77 Dana - 24 units

Multiple Launch Rocket Systems

* RM-70 - 6 units
* BM-21 Grad - 16 units
* LAR-160 - 15 units

Mortars

* 2B11 120 mm - 6 units
* M-38/43 120 mm - 17 units
* M75 120 mm – 25 units

Assault Rifles and Carbines

* M4A3 (Colt RO977) - 4,000[7]
* G36K - Georgian Ministry of Internal Affairs special units
* AKM/AKMS
* AK-74
* AKS-74U
* Tavor TAR-21 - Georgian Ministry of Internal Affairs special units

Machine Guns

* PK machine gun
* NSV
* Mk 19 Mod 3

Sniper Rifles

* SVD
* Remington 700
* Zastava M93 Black Arrow - 12.7mm heavy, bolt-action sniper rifle
* Barrett M82A1 - 20 purchased in Israel[8]

and suplied them with your harware, but it's true that the bulk of their weaponry is of Soviet origin. Just like the Polish army or other East European members of NATO. Still, before their humilating defeat the Georgian Armed Forces have been seen as a modern and well-trained force, the most battle ready force among all ex-Soviet republics.

How much air support did they have?

What was the tank vs tank ratio?

How many Georgian troops in SO proper?

When did the "defeat" happen? Or do you consider their strategic retreat to Tbilisi a rout? What would YOU have done, militarily speaking, in their shoes, facing an assault on your capital and a potential occupation/"regime change"?

Then wake-up already. We kicked your student's arses easily, if you think that Turkish army is better trained and equiped than the Georgian army was, then you are dreaming.

I know this keeps your laundry machine busy, but dude, this is GEORGIA we're talking about, which you supposedly defeated "easily".

Also, dropping "Neo" -

[Patroklos]

And what if Soviets

Serb, your fly is down

Would you support alike bombardment of Vilnus to bring some Soviet "constitutional order" to its rioting province?

When Latvian rebels are mortering Russian positions inside Russia, feel free. Of course Russia can do FAR better than 2000/I mean 100 casualties I am sure.

[Saras]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles


Shelling a few villages is equivalent to an all out bombardment on a city?

Which did not happen? wake up, NEO ((C) Serb)

[Serb]

Originally posted by onodera

So I guess it is okay to invade non-democracies, right? Maybe we'll just go and help Saudi Arabs overthrow their monarch together?

The Sukashvili's Georgia is a democracy?
Don't make me laugh.

[chequita guevara]

The fact that it didn't kill as many people as Russia claimed does not mean it didn't happen. Only the knee-jerk anti-Russians claim it didn't.

[PLATO]

Originally posted by Serb
... if you think that Turkish army is better trained and equiped than the Georgian army was, then you are dreaming.

It may be a dream for us, but it would be a nightmare for the Russian Army.

The Russians still don't get it. NATO was designed to defeat the Soviet Union...which was magnitudes more powerful than the pitiful Russian forces of today.

NATO has done nothing but upgrade weapon systems while the Russians were trying to figure out how to make bread again and keep their aging equipment from rusting.

Did you see the figures in the armour thread? The US has over 4000 top of the line tanks and Russia has just over 300. Hell, the French have more and better equipment than Russia does right now!

So go ahead and pat yourself on the back. Woohoo! Russia defeated a 37,000 man force! You guys are awesome!

[Serb]

Originally posted by PLATO


Certainly the difference in heavy armour, artillery, and air support had noting to do with it.

Of course it had. We had the skies and outgunned them with our tanks and arty not with numbers of soldiers involved.

[chequita guevara]

Russia still has nukes.

[Patroklos]

The fact that it didn't kill as many people as Russia claimed does not mean it didn't happen.

Yeah, seeing as I quoted the accurate casualty number it kind of means it did happen, does it not comrade?

Only the knee-jerk anti-Russians claim it didn't

When you find one in this thread let me know. While you are at it go get me a bosun's punch, and don't forget our snipe hunt tomorrow morning.