Do you actually understand the Russian-Georgian conflict?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Elok
I guess I'm better at pretending than I thought. Compared to many other polytubbies I'm quite ignorant, in my experience. Or maybe they're even better at pretending than I am...hmmm....GePap, what source do you recommend?

Online, the "better" news sites (WaPo, NYT, BBC, Reuters), and even crap like Wiki, as long as you look keep in mind what is verifiable elsewhere or cited, and what isn't. Better not to look at anything about the current conflict, but bone up on the stuff that has been happening for the last few years. As of the current fighting, there aren't enough good non-biased sources to know very well what is currently happening on the ground until a few days have passed.

BTW, has anyone compared Putin or Medvedev to Hitler annexing the Sudetenland yet? On Poly, I mean; I'm sure Godwinization has happened somewhere online by now.

This went Godwin days ago.

[Traianvs]

There was some intentional Godwinizing by Bebro iirc, and some unintentional by Serb towards Saras (no surprise there).

As is typical with this kind of conflicts, it's nearly impossible to know what really happens on the spot. Things will be a lot clearer in a few weeks, or rather months.

I myself don't claim to really understand it, but I believe I'm relatively well informed compared to your average joe in the street. To be really informed about it you'd need to actively follow up on the regional news for a few years to find out what the real underlying problems are. Don't know many people who're interested in that ****hole though, apart from teh oil aficionados and peace researchers

[PLATO]

Originally posted by GePap
Yes, I think I am pretty well versed in the issue now. Finding information is not as hard as it may seem.

I think the caring bit is the harder one.

This is probably the best point in this thread. If not for the highly nationalistic and imperalistic talk of the current Russian government then this would not be as big an issue to me.

My fear is that Russia is positioning for further acts to re-establish their aphere of influence. My contention is that resetting up a bi-polar world is an extremely bad idea and that it needs to be stopped now.

[Asher]

Originally posted by rah
As far as I can tell.
I asked Ben to call Asher a *** and tell him he was going to rot in hell for liking guys.
Asher responded with a 10 page tirade against the right and called Ben all sorts of names.
I banned Asher for breaking the rules.

I'll get around to banning Ben later just for fun.

If that's not similar, then chalk me up to the second answer.

I always suspected the stupidity of some posters on this site was due to the admin planting them to provoke me into rage.

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by PLATO


This is probably the best point in this thread. If not for the highly nationalistic and imperalistic talk of the current Russian government then this would not be as big an issue to me.

My fear is that Russia is positioning for further acts to re-establish their aphere of influence. My contention is that resetting up a bi-polar world is an extremely bad idea and that it needs to be stopped now.

Is monopolar much better, then?

I don't understand the conflict, but I distrust russians, not the people, poor buggers, but the **** that they are unfortunate enough to have running the place. So Georgia, Russia.

[rah]

Originally posted by Asher


I always suspected the stupidity of some posters on this site was due to the admin planting them to provoke me into rage.

Ben had never needed my help in that area.

[Sandman]

BTW, has anyone compared Putin or Medvedev to Hitler annexing the Sudetenland yet? On Poly, I mean; I'm sure Godwinization has happened somewhere online by now.

The US ambassador to the UN called it an Anschluss. On TV, not online.

[Elok]

Well, that's quite diplomatic. I'm sure it will lead to much rational and productive discussion.

[Zkribbler]

Last week, I wasn't even aware of any disputes in the region.

Then the American press made the Russians out to be unprovoked aggressors. Now, it looks as if there was plenty of provocation. I listened to the Russian Deputy Prime Minister being interviewed this morning, and learned a lot about the Russian view of things.

On the other hand, the Russian people are going to be surprised on how little they know. Their government is telling them that intervention was needed to bring about peace and that is Russian's only goal. Their goverment is not telling them that the Georgian government has already sent a signed peace agreement, which the Russian government has indicated it won't sign. The Russian government has assured its people that there have been no Georgian civilian casualties. That's just a flat lie. Troops are firing on fleeing civilians and at least one apartment building has been bombed. I doubt these acts were within offical Russian policy, but still, civilians are dead.

Bottom line: The Russians have achieved all their military goals. The Georgian military has all but thrown in the towel. It's time to stop the violence.

[Asher]

Bottom line: The Russians have achieved all their military goals. The Georgian military has all but thrown in the towel. It's time to stop the violence.

Russia wants to overthrow the government of Georgia (maybe annex it). They aren't done yet.

[onodera]

Originally posted by Asher

Bottom line: The Russians have achieved all their military goals. The Georgian military has all but thrown in the towel. It's time to stop the violence.

Russia wants to overthrow the government of Georgia (maybe annex it). They aren't done yet.

You know how in SMAC there a point beyond which a faction refuses to capitulate or even accept a truce? We'll drive Saak past that point. Only then will a challenger appear, who *will* agree to our terms.

[CapTVK]

Let's see if i can place this into an American perspective....


Let's suppose that in the early 90's their was a faction of mexicans (georgians) called the "southmexican-texans"(ossetians) who wanted to be part of Texas (Russia, North-ossetia). In fact they were willing to take up arms for it. Of course Mexico (Georgia) didn't like this but after a short but violent uprising a ceasefire was agreed with American soldiers present as peacekeepers in a statelet called "southmexican-texas". Throughout the years this mini-statelet with a questionable government could only survive thanks to the USA giving massive aid. Apart from financial aid (2/3 of the budget) the USA would also give out american passports like candy making these southmexican-texans in effect Americans (Russians)! Furthermore throughout the years these southmexicans-texans would become more bold and start shelling nearby mexican villages.

Meanwhile a new Mexican president was also elected on the promise that he would do something about this seperatist statelet within it's own borders. so one day day he made a gamble that he could invade this statelet and finally put it back under full Mexican control. This didn't work out as planned as the USA was also planning for this to happen eventually so reacted with massive force within hours and at the same time annex other parts of Mexico as well.

And that's where we are now...


On a final note, Russians are blatant racists and despise anyone from the Caucasus. Those ossetians shouldn't be getting their hopes up as Russian citizens.

[Asher]

Originally posted by onodera

You know how in SMAC there a point beyond which a faction refuses to capitulate or even accept a truce? We'll drive Saak past that point. Only then will a challenger appear, who *will* agree to our terms.

I wouldn't be surprised if Russian soldiers are capitulating all over the women in Georgia right now...

[onodera]

Originally posted by Asher


I wouldn't be surprised if Russian soldiers are capitulating all over the women in Georgia right now...

Nah, they age too fast.

[Ben Kenobi]

Personally, I can't figure out what the hell happened.

It's a simple concept.

Russia feels like it's manhood is in question after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

They see Georgia as in their personal 'sphere of influence'. Georgia has pissed off mighty Russia by seeking an alliance with the US in the NATO rather then cuddling up to Russia.

Russia gives the people of S. Ossetia Russian Passports so they can make the claim that S. Ossetia is primarily Russian.

Georgia responds by saying that the border is the border, and ought to remain as they are. Georgia responds by attacking the rebels in S. Ossetia.

Russia, thrilled that their trap works, sends in the tanks to defend the newly minted Russian citizens and rolls over Georgia.

We haven't seen anything like this since the Czechs.