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It's war. Part II

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  • The Georgians didn't put any effort in properly planning this thing. Even arm chair generals know that first you cut the enemy off and then you kill them. The very first thing they should have done was destroy the only road into South Ossetia from Russia to make sure the Russians wouldn't be able to move large numbers in quickly or at the very least they'd be limited air mobile forces (so limited artillery and little to no armor).

    Next if Russia has recently been upgrading rail lines and road ways in Abkhazia then you destroy the rail line and and bridges then cluster bomb them try to mine the road to prevent forces from advancing. At the very least they could have cluster bombed the roads leaving tons of unexploded ordnance just waiting to go off should someone try to use the road. That leaves just redeployment by sea or by air. Instead of buying tanks which have limited mobility in the mountainous terrain they should have been buying boat loads of portable anti aircraft missiles and hundreds of cheap $30,000 speed boats loaded with cheap hand held anti ship missiles. don't try to go toe to toe with a superior enemy just keep them from effectively using their advantages constantly threatening their expensive ships and planes with cheap hand held missile systems which can be carried by a single man.

    If the Russians come in with infantry because they can't move their armor up then you concentrate on choke points which you turn into hard points by digging in, using landmines, and claymores, and dug in artillery positions. the Georgian goals should have been to cut off the rebel areas, hold them, and then wear the Russians down over a couple of weeks until international pressure makes the Russians give up.
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    • We've taken Poti. Well, kinda walked into it. I think Georgian army has deflated. In Tbilisi by tomorrow?
      Source (in Russian): http://pepsikolka.livejournal.com/

      And Oerdin, if Georgia destroyed the tunnel, which is our property, that'd be an act of aggression, we'd declare war and use other tunnels that lead from Russia straight into Georgia. Well, this and we'd airdrop some VDV straight into Tbilisi.
      Graffiti in a public toilet
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      Among the poets we are ****.

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      • The US should start handing out US passports in Alberta.
        Long time member @ Apolyton
        Civilization player since the dawn of time

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        • I'm especially surprised the Georgians didn't use the speed boat thing since it is a classic way to destroy high profile enemy targets without risking much. Each boat could have a two man team (driver & navigator/gunner) X 200 speed boats = 400 men total. All 200 speed boats each with three hand head fire and forget anti ship missiles would likely cost less then that missile frigate of theirs which got sunk.

          Sure, the Russians could sink most of the speed boats no problem but if a Russian fleet is 5 miles off the coast and 200 speed boats are going 50 miles per hour then that's 6 minutes until they're on top of the Russian convoy/fleet. Can Russia destroy all 200 of these small, fast, low profile, and highly maneuverable speed boats in 6 minutes? Hell, the missiles probably have a range of several miles so I bet an aweful lot of them would get into missile range and fire some off before they got sunk and I doubt the best anti missile system could deal with 6 missiles at the same time. So you can wipe out a lot of very expensive ships, very quickly, for just a couple of million bucks and not risking more then 400 of your own sailors.
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          • So, in the end, does Russia intend to conquer and occupy all of Georgia? Now that elements of their armed forces are pushing beyond the contested provinces, it sure seems that way.

            Perhaps Russia intends to do to Georgia what America did to Saddam Hussein's Iraq (i.e. occupy and attempt to establish a friendly/puppet/client/passive state)?

            Again, if so, things might not turn out so smoothly. Just look at what we (as in America) went through in Iraq for years before things finally began calming down in the last six months or so.

            Gatekeeper
            "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

            "Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius

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            • Originally posted by onodera
              We've taken Poti. Well, kinda walked into it. I think Georgian army has deflated. In Tbilisi by tomorrow?
              Source (in Russian): http://pepsikolka.livejournal.com/

              And Oerdin, if Georgia destroyed the tunnel, which is our property, that'd be an act of aggression, we'd declare war and use other tunnels that lead from Russia straight into Georgia. Well, this and we'd airdrop some VDV straight into Tbilisi.
              "Sorry, Mr Russia but we don't know who blew up that tunnel. It must have been the work of the pro-Georgia people of South Ossetia or maybe Chechnian terrorists."
              Last edited by Dinner; August 11, 2008, 15:39.
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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              • They'll take the place, arrest the pres and put him away for war crimes, install a puppet gov, sign a mutual defense pact and keep a few divisdions around to keep the locals in line.
                Long time member @ Apolyton
                Civilization player since the dawn of time

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                • Originally posted by Oerdin
                  I'm especially surprised the Georgians didn't use the speed boat thing since it is a classic way to destroy high profile enemy targets without risking much. Each boat could have a two man team (driver & navigator/gunner) X 200 speed boats = 400 men total. All 200 speed boats each with three hand head fire and forget anti ship missiles would likely cost less then that missile frigate of theirs which got sunk.

                  Sure, the Russians could sink most of the speed boats no problem but if a Russian fleet is 5 miles off the coast and 200 speed boats are going 50 miles per hour then that's 6 minutes until they're on top of the Russian convoy/fleet. Can Russia destroy all 200 of these small, fast, low profile, and highly maneuverable speed boats in 6 minutes? Hell, the missiles probably have a range of several miles so I bet an aweful lot of them would get into missile range and fire some off before they got sunk and I doubt the best anti missile system could deal with 6 missiles at the same time. So you can wipe out a lot of very expensive ships, very quickly, for just a couple of million bucks and not risking more then 400 of your own sailors.
                  This is a feasible tactic, but Georgia is a "proud highland nation, not some lowly desert charivari nation". (Let's see how US will fare against Iran. I have a feeling we've exchanged these two countries.)
                  Also, have you ever landed a lucky hit on your local school bully? Ours usually winced, but then grabbed you and said, "And now let me try hit you in the same spot..."
                  Graffiti in a public toilet
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                  Among the poets we are ****.

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                  • Originally posted by onodera
                    ... (Let's see how US will fare against Iran. I have a feeling we've exchanged these two countries.) ...
                    Realpolitik, hmm? I dunno ... even if Russia does give ground on Iran, the U.S. and its allies still have to deal with China on the UNSC.

                    Gatekeeper
                    "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire

                    "Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius

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                    • Originally posted by Gatekeeper


                      Realpolitik, hmm? I dunno ... even if Russia does give ground on Iran, the U.S. and its allies still have to deal with China on the UNSC.

                      Gatekeeper
                      Did they have to deal with it when they attacked Iraq?
                      Graffiti in a public toilet
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                      Among the poets we are ****.

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                      • I think it's time my thread title is returned.
                        Originally posted by Serb:Please, remind me, how exactly and when exactly, Russia bullied its neighbors?
                        Originally posted by Ted Striker:Go Serb !
                        Originally posted by Pekka:If it was possible to capture the essentials of Sepultura in a dildo, I'd attach it to a bicycle and ride it up your azzes.

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                        • Speaking of China...

                          Has anybody seen anything on their take on all this?
                          "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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                          • Originally posted by Lancer
                            The US should start handing out US passports in Alberta.
                            No one "Handed out" Passports in South Ossetia. They had to apply for them.

                            So, 70% of the population went out and applied for Russian Passports.

                            It wasn't like you got them in the mail, like a Filipina mail-order bride, Lancer.
                            Today, you are the waves of the Pacific, pushing ever eastward. You are the sequoias rising from the Sierra Nevada, defiant and enduring.

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                            • By the way, I've heard the US've been amassing fleets in Persian Gulf.
                              Time for "It's another war." thread[i]?
                              Graffiti in a public toilet
                              Do not require skill or wit
                              Among the **** we all are poets
                              Among the poets we are ****.

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                              • About installing a pro-Russian puppet government in Georgia... Cynically speaking, I am not sure Russia would really need one right now. Indeed, the Ossetians and the Abkhazians won't agree to be part of Georgia, no matter what the orientation of the government may be. So isn't it easier for Russia to have an unfriendly Georgian government, in order to have free hands for a possible recognition of the break-away provinces? All that Russia needs is that there be no military threat to her allies, as well as no NATO membership for Georgia.

                                Freedom is just unawareness of being manipulated.

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