Will Georgia turn into a Moscow satellite?

[Lancer]

The missile shield is going up bigger than planned. Washington just agreed to put missiles into Poland which they refused to do before this crisis. In response to that Putin will seek closer ties to Cuba. It's really retro. That 70s Show writ large, now all I need to hear is disco is coming back.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


This is true -- and truely amazing.

We sui sponte take this option off the table and get nothing for it. Meanwhile Condi is on her way to Georgia with a cease-fire "agreement" which will permit Russia to keep its military in the two disputed regions, does not permit any independant observers in, but does permit Russia for six months to conduct "security operations" inside Georgia proper.

The Georgian President compares this "agreement" the the Munich Accords, wherein Britain agreed to give up parts of Czechoslavacia to Hitler. He's wrong. Neville Chamberlain then showed much more backbone than George Bush is now.

I heard that it would have to be rewritten.

Anyway, the analogy doesn't fly. Czechoslovakia wasn't at the ass end of nowhere and Germany didn't have nukes.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


This is true -- and truely amazing.

We sui sponte take this option off the table and get nothing for it. Meanwhile Condi is on her way to Georgia with a cease-fire "agreement" which will permit Russia to keep its military in the two disputed regions, does not permit any independant observers in, but does permit Russia for six months to conduct "security operations" inside Georgia proper.

The Georgian President compares this "agreement" the the Munich Accords, wherein Britain agreed to give up parts of Czechoslavacia to Hitler. He's wrong. Neville Chamberlain then showed much more backbone than George Bush is now.

Are you on some sort of Cold War fix? Sorry, but Georgia isn't worth it, never was. If you want to relive the cold war, feel free to pop some Vietnam war videos in a VCR, but otherwise, enough with the patently idiotic Godwin references.

[Lancer]

In order for the allies to respond militarily to German demands for the Sudatenland the Brits and French would have had to invade Germany. That was doable but they lacked the balls. In order for the US to respond militarily now we would have to invade Russia through Poland. I don't know what we have in Poland, but...not doable.

We need to rebuild the 7th Army to have any voice at all.

[Cort Haus]

I can't believe some people want to start WW3 over this.

[Lancer]

WW3 isn't even an option.

[Kontiki]

It truly is amazing how deeply ingrained the Cold War propaganda is for some people.

[Lancer]

You mean like Putin?

Its all about being ready. The US was ready during the cold war so it never got too hot. The US is not ready now so there is a danger of war. We need to get ready so there isn't one.

Peace is the objective.

[onodera]

You make peace by making peace, not by mobilizing for war. It almost feel like you WANT us to invade Europe, just so you can get what you missed in your youth, Lancer.

[Saras]

war=bad

i drunk again

[Lancer]

Yeah, there were alot that said that during the cold war onodera, BUT! It's really about standing up to aggressors, not being one.

I never wanted a war when I was in Germany or now. Back then I had 2 German GFs, lots of friends, regular stuff to do out and about, stuff to live for. We would rotate up to the border to patrol there. One of our main missions was to prevent Russian forces from crossing the border in force to retrieve escapees from the east. Those people appreciated the US Army even if the citizens of the west had no clue. Still that way. I bet the Poles, the Ukrainians, folks like our very own Saras know what we're about and why. Now I have a wonderful wife and dreams of retiring to the Phils. The last thing on this earth I want is war with Russia or anyone else. That's why I want today's military to be ready.

Mobilize for peace!

[GePap]

Two points:

1. Poland only borders Kalininngrad, and no other part of Russia, so mobilizing an army in Poland to "invade" Russia isn't the best of plans.

2. Even the Poles won't go along with your plan. Getting some defensive missiles is one thing, hosting an army on their soil with the idea of it being there to specifically fight Russia? Most likely not.

[Lancer]

I don't want to invade Russia. I was only responding to Zkribs post about the Georgian pres saying this was the same as giving away the Sudatenland. Totally different. The allies could have invaded Germany, NATO could not, would not, and should not invade Russia. However, we have an interest in not letting Poland and the Ukraine become the next Georgia.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by onodera
You make peace by making peace, ...

That's why I was very happy when Russian agreed to a cease fire.

That's why I was very unhappy when Russian tanks continued to advance into Georgia after the cease fire went into effect.
That's why I was very unhappy to see the news report on TV last night where the reporter was shot by a sniper while she was reporing on camera.
That's why I was very unhappy to see a paramilitary man steal a reporter's camera and then, when a second reporter approached to question him, to see the paramilitary man pull a gun, point in at the reporter and chase him off, shooting.

I can understand why the Russians would move to protect the people in the disputed areas.
I cannot understand why the Russians continue to use violence after they've achieved all their military goals, after they've routed the Georgian Army, and after they've agreed to a cease fire.

[Kirnwaffen]

I doubt that Ukraine and Poland will become "the next Georgia" unless they seriously provoke Russia into an invasion. Ukraine in particular would be a much bigger task for Russia than Georgia could ever hope to be. At least in the short term. That's why I don't think it's particularly critical that we immediately mobilize in Europe. Longer term, as the reforms in the Russian Army take hold and it becomes a more capable force, I think it's important to better train Eastern European armies and provide a number of heavy brigades in support, as a deterrent.

I agree that you have to be prepared for war in order to secure peace. Being ill prepared invites agression. But you can't ignore the diplomatic front, and I think we're failing pretty miserably there, ATM.