Do Any of You Gimps Still Believe in Obama?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Darius871
I. Agree. With. Aggie.

[Barnabas]

I think Obama should win, mainly because losing will teach republicans to never again pick someone like Bush junior.
And because he is black, many will will be happy with having a black president, and the "when will America have a black president ?" thing will die.

But not because he is considerably to the left of McCain. (he isnt)

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Lancer
Is Obama Jewish? I saw a pic of him praying at the wailing wall with one of those head thingies.

Don't get excited. Calvin Cooledge was famously pictured wearing a headress of eagle feathers. It didn't make him an India--er--Native American.

Bush was pictured in a flight suit. It didn't make him an Air Force pilot.

[Traianvs]

Re: Do Any of You Gimps Still Believe in Obama?

Originally posted by Agathon
I'm interested, since he seems to have proved himself to be a hollow man in the last few weeks. The mouth moves and platitudes come out, but there seems to be no connection with a mind.

Apparently, he was like this at school.

I don't think it will matter, because someone will release video of him acting like Angela Davis and it will all be over (despite the fact if he acted like AD, he'd pick up the few votes of people like me).


And lolz at Edwards getting caught visiting his baby momma.

Your only argument is that he talks in platitudes when he speeches during his world tour. Well duh, which presidential candidate doesn't do this / hasn't done this.

Obama angled for the leftist voters earlier, symbolizing change in order to distinguish him from Hillary. Now he's taking it against a Republican he has to move back to the centre to get votes. This is entirely natural because it's mostly hardcore liberals who go out to vote for a party nominee. In the general election Obama needs the good ol bigot yanks too . This happens every election.

Election campaigns, especially in the US, are not renowned for their deep and nuanced arguments. There are far more ignorant people that need to be convinced. Talk to them in simple terms. Tell them that everything will be different. Tell them there will be change. Tell them that with him life will get better. It's the same old trick again, like everywhere else in the world. This is ****ing 21st century democracy after all, What do you expect

I disagree. I think he is the best possible nominee for the kind of political system he is operating in (which is why he has been such a success so far and so quickly). He's a fine orator, probably the best that the US has had since Ronald Reagan.

The fact that he is a success tells you more about the US political system than it does about him. This has been evident for a while, since voters chose Bush, who is pretty empty headed and incompetent over Al Gore, who was the opposite (does anyone honestly think that the US would be so reviled or that things like Katrina would have been so badly mishandled if Gore was the president?).

Spot on there.

[tinyp3nis]

Traianvs are you saying Obama is in your book?

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by tinyp3nis
Traianvs are you saying Obama is in your book?

I'm saying he's the best available option in the current American system. On the other hand, Agathon's weak on concrete arguments: every candidate is opportunistic and they all try to look good and appease as many people as possible. Hence the hollow speak during his speeches. But honestly, when's the last time you've seen a candidate having the balls to really speak out?

It doesn't happen, because it's political suicide. Had anyone thought back in 1999 that Bush jr. would go rampant like he did during the previous 8 years? 9/11 changed a lot, that much is true, but that's not the only cause. Concerning Iraq, the neocons had been planning on that for many a year before his inauguration or 9/11. I'm only saying that a campaign's what it is, and you can't really judge on some speeches; these are not a reliable criterion on which to base assumptions relating to policy. They are a well prepared monologue after all, with no room for objection, etc.

[tinyp3nis]

Do you not think it's possible that he is just as bad as Mccain(or worse let's not leave out possibilities)?

[Imran Siddiqui]

every candidate is opportunistic and they all try to look good and appease as many people as possible. Hence the hollow speak during his speeches.

Understandable, but the progressives had themselves up in a lather thinking Obama could be the hoped for Democrat candidate who is an unabashed progressive and has a chance of winning. Kind of like Reagan in 1980 to the conservatives. His moving back to the center feels like a betrayal to them because they were expecting something else.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by tinyp3nis
Do you not think it's possible that he is just as bad as Mccain(or worse let's not leave out possibilities)?

Not after McCain speaks, no.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by tinyp3nis
Do you not think it's possible that he is just as bad as Mccain(or worse let's not leave out possibilities)?

No. McCain is a relic of the vested interests that should be pedestalled in a museum.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

every candidate is opportunistic and they all try to look good and appease as many people as possible. Hence the hollow speak during his speeches.

Understandable, but the progressives had themselves up in a lather thinking Obama could be the hoped for Democrat candidate who is an unabashed progressive and has a chance of winning. Kind of like Reagan in 1980 to the conservatives. His moving back to the center feels like a betrayal to them because they were expecting something else.

I suppose you're right, but then again my point still stands. The politicians that get elected find a way to fool the naive mass. For a moment I too had the impression Obama was a fresh face in US politics. The way MoveOn (of which I happen to be sort of a member, haha) and others were making propaganda made me lose that confidence again. But that was to be expected. OTOH: I'm sure it's not any better on McCain's side of course.

The day Obama supported the old US policy vis-à-vis Israel (and Palestine) did it for me. That was the last proof that he was just another poser. Still, he can still mend some of Bush's failure

[Imran Siddiqui]

McCain is a relic of the vested interests

I'm not sure the vested interests like McCain's legislative history.

[Traianvs]

I know he is (or was?) not liked by many of the more radical Republicans and that he sometimes appeared un-republicanlike in certain respects. I don't know everything about his legislative history though.

I just swallow what Zkribbler says and what I pick up here and there

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Traianvs
I know he is (or was?) not liked by many of the more radical Republicans and that he sometimes appeared un-republicanlike in certain respects. I don't know everything about his legislative history though.

I just swallow what Zkribbler says ...

Good thinking!

Obama Girl Link

[tinyp3nis]

Originally posted by Traianvs


No. McCain is a relic of the vested interests that should be pedestalled in a museum.




I suppose you're right, but then again my point still stands. The politicians that get elected find a way to fool the naive mass. For a moment I too had the impression Obama was a fresh face in US politics. The way MoveOn (of which I happen to be sort of a member, haha) and others were making propaganda made me lose that confidence again. But that was to be expected. OTOH: I'm sure it's not any better on McCain's side of course.

The day Obama supported the old US policy vis-à-vis Israel (and Palestine) did it for me. That was the last proof that he was just another poser. Still, he can still mend some of Bush's failure

Big money loves Obama even more than Mccain, I would say that is something of a vested interest that should be pedestalled in a museum.
I'm not even sure we would agree what a democracy is, this "21st century democracy" as you call it is not a democracy.
There can't be a democracy without healthy media and people voting based their beliefs and opinions. It has turned into least worst voting.
I know english speaking young internet users who are not americans tend to run into a lot of this "good cop vs bad cop" american voting circus propaganda. I know I did. If you visit corporate gamed digg.com you will find most of the sites. This leads them to think americans are dumb because they are not doing the "obvious good thing" and voting for democrats, because that would make everything better... but it would not.
If you suspect you might have fallen for this and want to know more I suggest first reading about the televised "debates" that the two parties together organize with their private corporation. One way to know that you might have fallen for it is if you think I am republican supporter.
Did you know that almost 50% of americans do not vote? Laziness or perhaps they see through the BS system? It's both.

[Lancer]

I presume the vested interests do so as part of a three piece suit ensemble?