Prisoner exchange with Hezbullah - Israeli receives 2 dead bodies

[Sirotnikov]

Since I see it's important for you to come and balance the discussion, I'll help:

A minute of Gepap's World:

The IDF is just as bad as Samir Kuntar, because Kuntar said he never meant to murder the girl, and it was all an accident, staged by the IDF. The IDF also kills 4 y/o girls all the time, because he hates arab 4 y/o girls.

Hence,
IDF SOLDIERS = SAMIR KUNTAR

here.
I made your main argument. you can leave.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
actually you're spewing hezbullah revisionist history.
there was no policy of kidnapping attempts in the 1970s, surely not by the PFLP.

there was a policy of cross border raids, with the clear target of killing as many as possible.

The events of that night belie what you claim. If the aim of the raid were simply to commit murders, then they could have just gunnned down the family at home and have been done.

You can't claim your own facts.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
Since I see it's important for you to come and balance the discussion, I'll help:

A minute of Gepap's World:



here.
I made your main argument. you can leave.

So pathetic as to be funny. And clearly you aren't very good at reading.

And the sad part is that I am one of the few people in this thread not calling Israelis a bunch of wimps for this deal. Just because I find your own personal viewpoints morally questionable at best doesn't mean I charicature things, unlike you. HOw sad.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

what the f*** is your point?
That kuntar doesn't represnt hezbullah 100%? Where did I claim that?

Nowhere, but then I took your bolding as an attack on my previous post.

My point was to show you Kuntar's point of view. It also represents that of many similar minded people.

Yeah, YOURS. After all, Kuntar also said "We will not leave them alone and they will not leave us alone." You have always expressed the same view.

[Sirotnikov]

doesn't mean I charicature things, unlike you

i don't need to make a caricature of you. you're doing it fine.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

i don't need to make a caricature of you. you're doing it fine.

Best reply you could make? Sad really.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by GePap
Nowhere, but then I took your bolding as an attack on my previous post.

had I wanted to attack you directly I would have quoted your post.

I know that Hezbullah is careful in stating their strategy.

My intention was to show a point of view prevalent in the thinking of lebanese extremists. Kuntar is a widely liked figure and considered a hero. No one shushed him or said "he's incorrect. we will stop after Sheba farms".


Hezbullah officials will not be as reckless as to state they seek the destrcution of Israel because it will be politically dumb for their "protectors of Lebanon" image.

My point was to show you Kuntar's point of view. It also represents that of many similar minded people.

Yeah, YOURS. After all, Kuntar also said "We will not leave them alone and they will not leave us alone." You have always expressed the same view.

Now that is more libel than I've seen in recent weeks.

We need to invent something akin to nediverse. Gepapiverse? Gepapland?
Help me people, I'm out of ideas

[GePap]

What, you aren't going to ask the creator of "nediverse"? Though I originally called it Nedaverse, but the little change seems to have stuck.

[Sirotnikov]

Originally posted by GePap
Best reply you could make? Sad really.

suddenly it's my fault you're a one trick poney?

I can see your posts from a far:

- Comparing intentional slaughter by terrorists with IDF pinpoint actions against terrorists that went wrong because "a death is a death is a death" and no matter what the intention is.

- Justifying almost anything ever done against any Israeli civilian or soldier since Israel "came to be illegitimately" / wronged someone or his family.

- Every terrorist attack made against Israel is comparable / justifyable by mentioning Dier Yassin.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

suddenly it's my fault you're a one trick poney?

I can see your posts from a far:

- Comparing intentional slaughter by terrorists with IDF pinpoint actions against terrorists that went wrong because "a death is a death is a death" and no matter what the intention is.

1. Dropping large bombs on large multi-family homes is "pinpoint"?

2. You are correct that people's mania for excusing actions based on "intention" is a bunch of ****, and why someone like Ghandi or Martin Luther King are trully admirable.

- Justifying almost anything ever done against any Israeli civilian or soldier since Israel "came to be illegitimately" / wronged someone or his family.

- Every terrorist attack made against Israel is comparable / justifyable by mentioning Dier Yassin.

So you are one of those sad fundamentalists who is unable to grasp the simple difference between understanding and "justifying"?

[Sirotnikov]

1. Dropping large bombs on large multi-family homes is "pinpoint"?

the attack on saleh sheadeh took place after intel thought the rest of the house was empty.
furthermore, since then israel drastically reduced the size of bombs to less than 40%, which lead to 3 consecutive assassination attempts where the missile hit the right floor and the right room, but the entire Hamas leadership escaped alive, most with minor injuries.

But this is an excellent example of your tactic to derail threads with discussion of how Israel is just as bad. Israel = Samir Kuntar..

So you are one of those sad fundamentalists who is unable to grasp the simple difference between understanding and "justifying"?

I don't recall you ever applying "understandng" to Israeli actions. Infact you always labeled them wrong, while labeling palestinian actions legitimate, justifiable or understandable. So any attempts to murk your stand should fall on deaf ears.

2. You are correct that people's mania for excusing actions based on "intention" is a bunch of ****, and why someone like Ghandi or Martin Luther King are trully admirable.

this is a gullible, silly and unrealistic discussion tactic, that is used to attack people self defending themselves, and defend people who use deplorable methods in war.

The futility of your argument is shown when you compare compare the sides in WWII, and judging by casualties statistics Germany comes out wronged against.

Intention is what stands in the basis of modern ethical and moralist thought. It is what stands in the basis of a modern trial.

You can't ignore it, and you won't... unless you're trying to defend people who've had deplorable intentions.

[Sirotnikov]

And stop derailing my thread.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
And stop derailing my thread.

You can only blame yourself and your acting out for that.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov

the attack on saleh sheadeh took place after intel thought the rest of the house was empty.
furthermore, since then israel drastically reduced the size of bombs to less than 40%, which lead to 3 consecutive assassination attempts where the missile hit the right floor and the right room, but the entire Hamas leadership escaped alive, most with minor injuries.

What a pity that an assasination attempt failed (at least you admit the nature of the act), but on the plus side, far lass innocent people died.

But this is an excellent example of your tactic to derail threads with discussion of how Israel is just as bad. Israel = Samir Kuntar..

Actually, if you had much sense, you would have seen that I replied to Eli's reply to dannubis's post. But then, it must be your puppy love that gives me all the credit.

I don't recall you ever applying "understandng" to Israeli actions. Infact you always labeled them wrong, while labeling palestinian actions legitimate, justifiable or understandable. So any attempts to murk your stand should fall on deaf ears.

Then your fundamentalism on the issue truly makes you blind and you are a lost cause. How sad, once I thought you might have some sense. Clearly I was wrong.

this is a gullible, silly and unrealistic discussion tactic, that is used to attack people self defending themselves, and defend people who use deplorable methods in war.

The futility of your argument is shown when you compare compare the sides in WWII, and judging by casualties statistics Germany comes out wronged against.

Part of me shakes my head at how silly this attempt at a "mathematica;" comparison of your is, even leaving aside what must be terrible data sets.

More important of course is the moral claim that "you" are the ones defending oneself only. historical blindness at it's best.

Intention is what stands in the basis of modern ethical and moralist thought. It is what stands in the basis of a modern trial.

You can't ignore it, and you won't... unless you're trying to defend people who've had deplorable intentions.

The funny thing is that you are too blind to see the basic logical problem with your entire case. Let me try to make you see:

All of this is based on definitions. Change a single definition and even using the very same moral system, the outcome changes completely. Any moral system built on a subjective base will remain subjective, no matter how much you cry out that it is objective. Which is why actually objective moral systems are so rare, so fleeting, and usually overwhelmed by the far more versitile subjective systems.

But lets go back to other people dissing Israel for his deal. I am sure you will be more capable at those arguments.

[Sirotnikov]

All of this is based on definitions. Change a single definition and even using the very same moral system, the outcome changes completely. Any moral system built on a subjective base will remain subjective, no matter how much you cry out that it is objective. Which is why actually objective moral systems are so rare, so fleeting, and usually overwhelmed by the far more versitile subjective systems.

any system where a cop who shoots a criminal and misses, is worse than a criminal who shoots innocent people, is lacking any ethical backbone.

Your system is required for child-murderers such as Kuntar to excuse their actions.

I'm happy you're proud of it.