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  • Will atheists in the military undermine effectiveness?

    Atheist soldier sues Army for 'unconstitutional' discrimination


    Army Spc. Jeremy Hall was raised Baptist.
    Jeremy Hall

    Army Spc. Jeremy Hall, who was raised Baptist but is now an atheist, says the military violated his religious freedom.
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    Like many Christians, he said grace before dinner and read the Bible before bed. Four years ago when he was deployed to Iraq, he packed his Bible so he would feel closer to God.

    He served two tours of duty in Iraq and has a near perfect record. But somewhere between the tours, something changed. Hall, now 23, said he no longer believes in God, fate, luck or anything supernatural.

    Hall said he met some atheists who suggested he read the Bible again. After doing so, he said he had so many unanswered questions that he decided to become an atheist.

    His sudden lack of faith, he said, cost him his military career and put his life at risk. Hall said his life was threatened by other troops and the military assigned a full-time bodyguard to protect him out of fear for his safety. Video Watch why Hall says his lack of faith almost got him killed »

    In March, Hall filed a federal lawsuit against the U.S. Department of Defense and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, among others. In the suit, Hall claims his rights to religious freedom under the First Amendment were violated and suggests that the United States military has become a Christian organization.

    "I think it's utterly and totally wrong. Unconstitutional," Hall said.

    Hall said there is a pattern of discrimination against non-Christians in the military.

    Two years ago on Thanksgiving Day, after refusing to pray at his table, Hall said he was told to go sit somewhere else. In another incident, when he was nearly killed during an attack on his Humvee, he said another soldier asked him, "Do you believe in Jesus now?"

    Hall isn't seeking compensation in his lawsuit -- just the guarantee of religious freedom in the military. Eventually, Hall was sent home early from Iraq and later returned to Fort Riley in Junction City, Kansas, to complete his tour of duty.

    He also said he missed out on promotions because he is an atheist.

    "I was told because I can't put my personal beliefs aside and pray with troops I wouldn't make a good leader," Hall said.

    Michael Weinstein, a retired senior Air Force officer and founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, is suing along with Hall. Weinstein said he's been contacted by more than 8,000 members of the military, almost all of them complaining of pressure to embrace evangelical Christianity.

    "Our Pentagon, our Pentacostalgon, is refusing to realize that when you put the uniform on, there's only one religious faith: patriotism," Weinstein said.

    Religious discrimination is a violation of the First Amendment and is also against military policy. The Pentagon refused to discuss specifics of Hall's case -- citing the litigation. But Deputy Undersecretary Bill Carr said complaints of evangelizing are "relatively rare." He also said the Pentagon is not pushing one faith among troops.

    "If an atheist chose to follow their convictions, absolutely that's acceptable," said Carr. "And that's a point of religious accommodation in department policy, one may hold whatever faith, or may hold no faith."
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    Weinstein said he doesn't buy it and points to a promotional video by a group called Christian Embassy. The video, which shows U.S. generals in uniform, was shot inside the Pentagon. The generals were subsequently reprimanded.

    Another group, the Officers' Christian Fellowship, has representatives on nearly all military bases worldwide. Its vision, which is spelled out on the organization's Web site, reads, "A spiritually transformed military, with ambassadors for Christ in uniform empowered by the Holy Spirit."

    Weinstein has a different interpretation.

    "Their purpose is to have Christian officers exercise Biblical leadership to raise up a godly army," he says.

    But Carr said the military's position is clear.
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    "Proselytizing or advancing a religious conviction is not what the nation would have us do and it's not what the military does," Carr said.

    The U.S. Justice Department is expected to respond to Hall's lawsuit this week. In the meantime, he continues to work in the military police unit at Fort Riley and plans to leave as soon as his tour of duty expires next year.
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    Discuss. Or not

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  • #2
    where is the poll

    *and we need a :maddoitnwo!: smiley
    Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
    GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

    Comment


    • #3
      He's an idiot. Had he stopped to think for even a second he would have seen the ire coming from miles away. That doesn't make what happened to him right of course, but he could have avoided becoming a potential martyr if he had just shut up until he got home.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Space05us
        That doesn't make what happened to him right of course, but he could have avoided becoming a potential martyr if he had just shut up until he got home.
        But he did shut up. During the prayer certainly
        Blah

        Comment


        • #5
          No. Nor have I ever seen any discrimination against athiests in the military. Nor have I seen discrimination against any other religions by the evil evangalist military wide conspiracy (being a practicing Catholic, I am sure I would have seen it by now).

          In anything, being to religious is what gets you ostrasized socially (but not officially). Same goes for being overly athiest, as in always questioning the beliefs of others. I guess you could say that about anyone being "to" anything.
          "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

          Comment


          • #6
            He's an idiot. Had he stopped to think for even a second he would have seen the ire coming from miles away. That doesn't make what happened to him right of course, but he could have avoided becoming a potential martyr if he had just shut up until he got home.
            Remember, he is a disgruntled party from something totally unrelated. I would not be suprised if this whole thing is just another attempt by an indivdual to deflect his own failures (not doing well enough on his advancement exam to get promoted) on yet another vast conspiracy.
            "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

            Comment


            • #7
              *atheist
              *evangelist
              *too
              *too

              THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
              AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
              AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
              DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

              Comment


              • #8
                God help anyone if they fail an advancement exam as a footsoldier.

                * pun intended
                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by LordShiva
                  *atheist
                  *evangelist
                  *too
                  *too

                  Did he outsource his spell checking?
                  "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                  Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yes. To Oerdin
                    THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
                    AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
                    AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
                    DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You two are the least cool people I have ever met
                      "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Two years ago on Thanksgiving Day, after refusing to pray at his table, Hall said he was told to go sit somewhere else. In another incident, when he was nearly killed during an attack on his Humvee, he said another soldier asked him, "Do you believe in Jesus now?"
                        ZOMFGG! Discrimination!!!1!1!!1!

                        I've had worse things said to me today.

                        Asher said he doesn't want to play with me anymore. I'm so choked up.
                        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


                          Two years ago on Thanksgiving Day, after refusing to pray at his table, Hall said he was told to go sit somewhere else. In another incident, when he was nearly killed during an attack on his Humvee, he said another soldier asked him, "Do you believe in Jesus now?"


                          ZOMFGG! Discrimination!!!1!1!!1!

                          I've had worse things said to me today.

                          Asher said he doesn't want to play with me anymore. I'm so choked up.
                          The first example is discrimination - like a textbook example of it. The second example is just annoying but would probably get more annoying with repetition - especially in life or death situations.
                          Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
                          "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The first example is discrimination - like a textbook example of it. The second example is just annoying but would probably get more annoying with repetition - especially in life or death situations.
                            Having a prayer, and one fellow not wanting to do it and being told to sit elsewhere?

                            Sounds like highschool to me.

                            I was discriminated against constantly, because no one wanted to play with me. Where can I sue?
                            Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                            "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                            2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                              Having a prayer, and one fellow not wanting to do it and being told to sit elsewhere?

                              Sounds like highschool to me.

                              I was discriminated against constantly, because no one wanted to play with me. Where can I sue?
                              Er, high school is full of stupid, mean people. Should we attempt to emulate that in the military?
                              Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
                              "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

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