US Supreme Court upholds individual right to gun ownership

[Ben Kenobi]

We should ban handguns to prevent people from killing themselves?

Why not ban cigarettes, or speeding, or eating foods high in cholesterol?

The handguns are a tool, that are being used in this way. All that banning them would accomplish is elevating other methods. What you really need is to deal with the root cause of suicide.

I'm surprised you posted that asher. It trashes your argument that homocide is the biggest reason to ban handguns.

[Asher]

Originally posted by molly bloom


Oh dear me, no.


But why bother ?

Because it would've been simpler than all of your stumbling around and attempts to avoid showing what punctuation was grammatically missing.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

I'm surprised you posted that asher. It trashes your argument that homocide is the biggest reason to ban handguns.

Who said it was the biggest? Just a massive reason.

Considering the article also clearly says homes with guns have higher homicide rates, I don't see how it trashes my argument that guns produce higher homicide rates. The fact that it also massively affects successful suicide rates is another issue -- one I didn't want to argue primarily on because I know you have no heart and no true Christian values where you should do anything to help your fellow man.

[Elok]

Geez, BK, these arguments are absurd. I'm fairly neutral on handguns, but what am I supposed to make of these?

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
We should ban handguns to prevent people from killing themselves?

Among other reasons, perhaps.

Why not ban cigarettes, or speeding, or eating foods high in cholesterol?

I'm actually all for banning cigs, since it's not fair to spew carcinogens into the air we all have to breathe. You wanna kill yourself, you can damn well chew tobacco. It may surprise you to learn that speeding is not, in fact, legal. I am not familiar with the "eat lots of unhealthy foods" suicide method, but I imagine it would take several months and most suicidal people simply aren't that patient. The gun's a lot quicker and more effective.

The handguns are a tool, that are being used in this way. All that banning them would accomplish is elevating other methods. What you really need is to deal with the root cause of suicide.

I can't be arsed to look it up, but there's a wonderful Onion op-ed to this effect: "Guns are only deadly when used for their intended purpose."

I'm surprised you posted that asher. It trashes your argument that homocide is the biggest reason to ban handguns.

While he has reason to be concerned about the murder of gay people, I believe Asher dislikes homicide in general as well.

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm actually all for banning cigs, since it's not fair to spew carcinogens into the air we all have to breathe.

Well I'm not. If people want to smoke, they can smoke. The point is just because certain activities have unhealthy consequences, doesn't mean that we ought to ban them. That includes handguns and their use in suicide. Just because some people use them to kill themselves is not a good argument to ban all people from owning them.

The argument stands. You may feel that a ban on smoking is warranted, but honestly, you have a choice. You can choose to go to restaurants that are non-smoking, you can choose not to hang around people who smoke.

I'm not sure how you get from the point, "I don't want to breathe in carginogens from smokers", to the point, "they should be banned."

The way things are you won't come into contact with cigaratte smoke unless you make a conscious decision to be around people who do smoke.

Now if your argument is that there is still incidental contact, mine is even simpler. There are plenty of carcinogens in the air that you breathe that you have no choice. You have far more danger from car exhaust, then you have from incidental smoking, and I don't see you saying that all cars should be banned.

It may surprise you to learn that speeding is not, in fact, legal.

We don't ban speeding do we? We issue tickets. I don't see how your argument for an outright ban is anything more then an extension of the nanny state.

The gun's a lot quicker and more effective.

And how do you get from there to saying all guns should be banned because some people may use them to commit suicide? It seems to me what you need instead is treatment to keep them from killing themselves.

Or maybe you should ban all knives because people could use them to stab themselves.

While he has reason to be concerned about the murder of gay people, I believe Asher dislikes homicide in general as well.

Is that why he's saying that handguns are particularly deadly to the black community?

A non-sequitor if I ever heard of one. I think Asher just has issues with guns and likes to take stuff away from people that he doesn't like.

[Ben Kenobi]

one I didn't want to argue primarily on because I know you have no heart and no true Christian values where you should do anything to help your fellow man.

Which is why I'm the only one saying that we should actually give people who have tried to kill themselves treatment rather then just using them as an excuse to grab guns from everybody?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

We don't ban speeding do we? We issue tickets. I don't see how your argument for an outright ban is anything more then an extension of the nanny state.

Holy ****, this is a new level of stupid. Yes, speeding is banned. You get tickets for it. If you get enough tickets you lose your privilege to drive.

Is that why he's saying that handguns are particularly deadly to the black community?

A non-sequitor if I ever heard of one.

I've never said anything about black people in this context. You lie. Again.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Which is why I'm the only one saying that we should actually give people who have tried to kill themselves treatment rather then just using them as an excuse to grab guns from everybody?

Why the **** do you think removing the most lethal tool of suicide BY FAR from a house precludes getting them treatment?

[Ben Kenobi]

Why the **** do you think removing the most lethal tool of suicide BY FAR from a house precludes getting them treatment?

You are arguing that everyone should lose their handguns, whether they've attempted suicide or not.

Why don't you dispense of the smokescreen, and simply say that handguns really harsh your mellow?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
You are arguing that everyone should lose their handguns, whether they've attempted suicide or not.

Why don't you dispense of the smokescreen, and simply say that handguns really harsh your mellow?

Because I actually care about human lives. Handguns are designed to kill and kill alone. Statistics show they do that VERY WELL. They kill the owner of the gun, the family of the gun, the friends of the owner of the gun, people they shoot with the gun in "self-defence" (like the guy who killed a couple guys for breaking into a neighbour's house, thought that was a shotty).

I do love how your argument has gotten to the pathetic low of basically saying "well, you just don't like handguns!".

I've got all kinds of statistical evidence and logical reasoning behind why handguns are bad for society. All you have is your opinion that guns are cool and useful for self-defence (when statistics show they do more harm than good). Then you are trying to pretend like my only argument against handguns is because "I don't like them".

Grow the **** up, Ben.

[Ben Kenobi]

Because I actually care about human lives.

Which is why you'd rather have more crime victims then less? I don't see it. Which is why you use suicide victims as an excuse to grab guns. I'm really not seeing that at all.

Handguns are designed to kill and kill alone.

Are the majority of handgun encounters fatal? We already discussed that, and it was shown conclusively that this was not the case. If the only purpose of a handgun is to kill, why doesn't it have a success rate equal to that of an electric chair?

Statistics show they do that VERY WELL. They kill the owner of the gun, the family of the gun, the friends of the owner of the gun, people they shoot with the gun in "self-defence" (like the guy who killed a couple guys for breaking into a neighbour's house, thought that was a shotty).

Oh, which is why we already proved this not to be the case. Why do you keep bringing up arguments that have been proven to be wrong?

I do love how your argument has gotten to the pathetic low of basically saying "well, you just don't like handguns!".

Yes, that is true. Are you saying that what I said is false, that you simply do not like guns?

I've got all kinds of statistical evidence and logical reasoning behind why handguns are bad for society.

Which hasn't held water I'm afraid. You haven't dropped your argument, so my conclusion is that it doesn't matter what I say, you hate guns, and want to take them away because you hate them, and evidence to the contrary won't change your mind.

All you have is your opinion that guns are cool and useful for self-defence

Where did I say guns are cool? They are useful for hunting and self-defense. Did you miss the part where I said I would never own one?

(when statistics show they do more harm than good).

Of course, that all depends on how you define good.

Then you are trying to pretend like my only argument against handguns is because "I don't like them".

Your arguments are getting worse, so that is my conclusion, in the end it's all because you don't like guns, yes.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Which is why you'd rather have more crime victims then less?

Whoosh. Did you intentionally ignore the statistics that homicide, deaths, etc increase with guns?

Your arguments are getting worse, so that is my conclusion, in the end it's all because you don't like guns, yes.

My arguments are getting worse? I just cited more studies that show guns have a negative impact on society, and then you consider that my argument is getting worse and I just don't like guns?

You're out of control with your stupidity, really.

[Ben Kenobi]

Whoosh. Did you intentionally ignore the statistics that homicide, deaths, etc increase with guns?

Which statistics? The ones that show that where there is a concealed carry law that homocides have dropped?

Or the ones that state that the US has a higher homocide rate then Canada?

My arguments are getting worse? I just cited more studies that show guns have a negative impact on society,

Your argument has become we should ban ALL handguns because some people use them to commit suicide. I think that's a worse argument then your previous one. You are grasping at straws.

[Asher]

I'm so tired of repeating the same stuff to the same people and they refuse to see it.

Just know that you are clueless. Maybe someone else can carry the torch on this, because I'm done repeating basic facts to people too stupid to read them.

My argument is not ****ing we should ban ****ing guns because some ****ing people use them to commit suicide. There's a TON OF ISSUES raised by handguns in society, astronomically rates of higher suicides AND HOMICIDES in households with guns is a VALID POINT. I HAVE EXPLICITLY AND REPEATEDLY STATED MY ARGUMENT IS NOT ONLY ABOUT SUICIDES. ACTUALLY, THAT WAS MENTIONED ONLY IN 1 OF MY MANY SOURCES AND THAT ARTICLE ALSO TALKS ABOUT MANY OTHER REASONS HANDGUNS ARE BAD FOR SOCIETY.

YOU ARE CRIMINALLY STUPID. JESUS CHRIST. I AM OFFICIALLY AN ATHEIST NOW BECAUSE IF THERE WAS A GOD YOU WOULD NOT EXIST.

[Dauphin]

Ben has a valid point though.