WTF is wrong with Rev. Wright?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Aeson
That's bull****. If anything, the Rev used Obama. And the Rev definitely was the one to drop the relationship.

It seems pretty simple. Obama attended their church and used them to get votes and various types of support. He became popular with blacks and then to get the white vote he disowned them completely.

Isn't that simple?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Aeson
The Rev dropped Obama.

That's not true, but even if it were it would hardly matter. You are ignoring a simple fact that Obama used (to get political support) the church and then abandoned them when it suited his political needs.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Aeson


It was the bolded part:

“What particularly angered me is his suggestion somehow that my previous denunciation of his remarks was somehow political posturing,” Mr. Obama said.

It is political posturing. Obama ought to feel guilty, not outraged. He's still political posturing.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
In March, Obama relegated Wright to the background, whereas beforehand, Wright had been more central. And before that, Wright was supposed to give the invocation before Obama's announcement that he was running for President, but at the last second the invitation was rescinded. Wright was in charge of Obama's African American Religious Leadership Committee. Then the thing about his remarks came up and suddenly, it was announced Wright wasn't with that group anymore.

Are you saying Obama had no reason to do so? It's not the Rev's natural right to have whatever position he wants in Obama's campaign. A friend would realize they were hurting the campaign and voluntarily step down. That doesn't end their relationship, it could even strengthen it. It certainly would affirm it. Which is what Obama initially tried to do, by taking heat for continued public support of the Rev even in the face of the difference of ideology.

Make no mistake, Obama dropped the Reverend, he just did it in a more passive aggressive way. Relegating him to the background instead of actually disassociating from him (kind of like how Milton was treated in the film "Office Space").

You just want your cake and eat it too.

When Obama doesn't cut all ties with the Rev based on an ideological disagreement, you hold it against him. Now that the Rev is, in your own words, seemingly trying to tank Obama's campaign, Obama's hand is forced and you want to hold it against him as "abandoning" the Rev, his church, (and if you really were agreeing with Kid and not just delusional at the time) the black community.

Disagreeing with someone is not abandoning the relationship. Calling someone a liar on national TV is. If you can't understand this, you're hopeless.

[Kidlicious]

Saying someone is political posturing is not abandoning them.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Aeson
Are you saying Obama had no reason to do so? It's not the Rev's natural right to have whatever position he wants in Obama's campaign. A friend would realize they were hurting the campaign and voluntarily step down. That doesn't end their relationship, it could even strengthen it. It certainly would affirm it. Which is what Obama initially tried to do, by taking heat for continued public support of the Rev even in the face of the difference of ideology.

When Obama doesn't cut all ties with the Rev based on an ideological disagreement, you hold it against him. Now that the Rev is, in your own words, seemingly trying to tank Obama's campaign, Obama's hand is forced and you want to hold it against him as "abandoning" the Rev, his church, (and if you really were agreeing with Kid and not just delusional at the time) the black community.

Disagreeing with someone is not abandoning the relationship. Calling someone a liar on national TV is. If you can't understand this, you're hopeless.

The Rev's words may indeed have been hurting the Obama campaign, but it is highly disingenous to say that the Reverend was the one who dropped Obama rather than the other way around. Obama dropped the Reverend, but did it in a very wussy passive aggressive way. Like trying to snub a girlfriend until she gets the point rather than just telling her its off. It doesn't mean it was wrong that Obama dropped the reverend (like it isn't wrong to break up with someone), but let's call a spade a spade.

I don't think Obama was abandoning the black community. I think that's a bridge too far because I don't think Rev. Wright and the UCC speak for all the black community (even though Wright now thinks he does). But, I do think he took steps to abandon the Reverend and the Church back in March. He got what he needed out of them and didn't want them to tar him badly in a Presidential campaign.

It happens, he's a politician. But make no mistake, Obama dropped the reverend. He may have been right to do it, but he did do it.


Basically, I'm saying I don't believe Obama when he said he never heard this stuff from Wright in the last 20 years or so.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Kidicious
It seems pretty simple. Obama attended their church and used them to get votes and various types of support. He became popular with blacks and then to get the white vote he disowned them completely.

Isn't that simple?

First of all, you're trying to mindread. So no, it's not simple. Unless we want to say it's simply kidiculous.

Second, he didn't disown blacks, his church, or even the Rev. He disagreed with the Rev on certain points, and tried to maintain the relationship in spite of the disagreement. Then the Rev forced Obama to further distance himself by implying that Obama was lying to America.

It is political posturing. Obama ought to feel guilty, not outraged. He's still political posturing.

Obama should feel guilty because he doesn't agree that the US Government created AIDS to kill blacks? He should feel guilty because the Rev called him a liar when he stated he didn't think the US Government created AIDS to kill blacks?



If by "political posturing" you mean not subscribing to bat**** insane conspiracy theories without any proof... then sure. He's "politically posturing". And anyone with half a brain would.

[Imran Siddiqui]

As Maureen Down in her NY Times column says:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/opinion/30dowd.html?hp

Obama, of course, will only ratchet up the skepticism of those who don’t understand why he stayed in the church for 20 years if his belief system is so diametrically opposed to Wright’s.

He’s back on the tricky path he faced as a child, navigating between two racial cultures. At Trinity, he may have ignored what he should have heard because he was trying to assimilate to black culture. Now, he may be outraged by what he belatedly heard because he’s trying to relate to the white lunch-pail set.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Aeson
First of all, you're trying to mindread. So no, it's not simple. Unless we want to say it's simply kidiculous.

I'm not mindreading. I'm analyzing the facts.

Second, he didn't disown blacks, his church, or even the Rev. He disagreed with the Rev on certain points, and tried to maintain the relationship in spite of the disagreement. Then the Rev forced Obama to further distance himself by implying that Obama was lying to America.

He was lying to America. Every knows that except for you. Some people accepted it and would have still voted for him. Buy with this knew condemnation of the people who helped put in in the place that he is now he looks like the worst kind of politician. How can anyone trust anything that he says now. He's got no loyalty.

Obama should feel guilty because he doesn't agree that the US Government created AIDS to kill blacks? He should feel guilty because the Rev called him a liar when he stated he didn't think the US Government created AIDS to kill blacks?

He should feel guilty for betraying his church. He sat in that church and listen to all that and probably shouted out some amens and nodded his head in approval. He did that to get votes. And what he's doing now is to get votes also. He's a dirty ****en rat. People could understand him trying to distance himself for political reasons, but now he's joining in with the churches enemies. Those who have exploited them through this whole process.

If by "political posturing" you mean not subscribing to bat**** insane conspiracy theories without any proof... then sure. He's "politically posturing". And anyone with half a brain would.

Oh. Thank you for saying that what Wright said was the truth. So what was this about Wright calling Obama a liar?

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Saying someone is political posturing is not abandoning them.

"Abandon" might not be quite the proper term of course, as it's not strong enough. "Throwing them under a train" would be more apt. At least for anyone with a sense of honor and integrity (or even who wants to present themselves as such).

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
The Rev's words may indeed have been hurting the Obama campaign, but it is highly disingenous to say that the Reverend was the one who dropped Obama rather than the other way around.

"Abandoned".

Obama clearly didn't abandon the Rev. Obama tried to maintain their personal relationship, and defended it publicly, even though he was taking heat for that.

Basically, I'm saying I don't believe Obama when he said he never heard this stuff from Wright in the last 20 years or so.

Irrelevant to the point of whether or not Obama abandoned the Rev. But have fun with your crystal ball. You and Kid seem to share that propensity.

[Imran Siddiqui]

"Abandoned".

You could attempt to use my OWN words against me.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by Kidicious
I'm not mindreading. I'm analyzing the facts.

Has Obama told you that he "attended their church and used them to get votes and various types of support"? Surely there are no other possible reasons for going to church so it must be fact.

He was lying to America. Every knows that except for you.

You're retarded. Everyone knows that, even you.[/mindreadingkid]

It is patently obvious that everyone does not know that he was lying to America about why he went to church. It's quite possible that he went to church for other reasons even, perhaps even the ones he's stated. Glad to see you tuned your crystal ball into every last person's thoughts though! It's not just for Obama anymore!

Oh. Thank you for saying that what Wright said was the truth. So what was this about Wright calling Obama a liar?

I was mocking you. Here, try this one: "I agree with Kid" if by "I agree with Kid" we mean I think he's bat**** insane.

[Ramo]

I'm gonna repeat my earlier question. Does anyone believe that the ideas that Wright has expressed are more harmful to human society than the ideas that birth control and homosexuality are immoral (which, I repeat, are considered "mainstream" religious beliefs)?

And, again, let's restrict this to what Wright has said or written, not an idea that one of his philosophical influences may have expressed 40 years ago, but later repudiated.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Aeson


"Abandon" might not be quite the proper term of course, as it's not strong enough. "Throwing them under a train" would be more apt. At least for anyone with a sense of honor and integrity (or even who wants to present themselves as such).

What on earth are you on about? You've admitted that it's true that Obama was in fact political posturing. So Obama should be so outraged by the truth?! And isn't it reasonable for Wright to defend his church?

I don't see the problem with Obama distancing himself from Wright, but not outright denounceing him. I also, don't see a problem with Wright telling people exactly what, in his opinion, what Obama was doing. What the hell do you expect him to do?

So what reason does Obama have for this lattest action against Wright, the pastor of his church. What reason for this outrage? Do you admit it's political posturing again?