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At the center of a black hole is it the same time as the moment of its formation?

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  • Turns out there's a big giant galaxy in between us and a lot of the CMB. It's call the Milky Way. You may have heard of it.

    It's difficult/impossible to remove it completely from the data.
    12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
    Stadtluft Macht Frei
    Killing it is the new killing it
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    • Now here's the cleaned up version:



      The statistical properties of that last map are horrendous, BTW. The meaningful cosmological measurements put out by the WMAP team are based on simply cutting away regions they think are foreground dominated.

      But for the low end of the power spectrum (quadrupole, octopole moments...up to l = ~30) such measurements are almost meaningless.
      12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
      Stadtluft Macht Frei
      Killing it is the new killing it
      Ultima Ratio Regum

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      • Originally posted by KrazyHorse
        Much respect to these guys for actually putting a pool table on a merry go round.

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        • KH:

          One question. What effect does the extinction from gas and dust affect your measurements of the background radiation in the areas you can see?

          I know you have a great big galaxy, but all parts of the sky are afflicted in some way by the interstellar medium to some degree.

          If for example, one part is slightly less affected, then these differences will show up as irregularities in the microwave background radiation.
          Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
          "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
          2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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          • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
            KH:

            One question. What effect does the extinction from gas and dust affect your measurements of the background radiation in the areas you can see?

            I know you have a great big galaxy, but all parts of the sky are afflicted in some way by the interstellar medium to some degree.

            If for example, one part is slightly less affected, then these differences will show up as irregularities in the microwave background radiation.
            Turns out that the MFP of light at this wavelength from the surface of last scattering is actually pretty long. Differences in the density along different paths does not make that much of a difference.

            Think about it this way: density fluctuations at say l=200 are on the order of 1 part in 10^5. For light not going through our galaxy there may be at most a 1% extinction (I'm pulling this out of my butt, but it's not completely ridiculous). But the fluctuations in extinction are hit by the same 1 part in 10^5 factor, so now the effect of extinction on the anisotropy is only 1 part in 10^7.
            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
            Stadtluft Macht Frei
            Killing it is the new killing it
            Ultima Ratio Regum

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            • Ok thanks. Theoretically, there shouldn't be any variations in the CMB radiation, so I was curious if differences in densities would be one explanations for the assymetries that we do see.
              Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
              "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
              2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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              • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
                Ok thanks. Theoretically, there shouldn't be any variations in the CMB radiation
                That is completely untrue.
                12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                Stadtluft Macht Frei
                Killing it is the new killing it
                Ultima Ratio Regum

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                • Ben, pay attention: the differences in densities ARE responsible for the existence of CMB anisotropies. But it is differences in the densities at the surface of last scattering, not afterwards (which would be where extinction comes into play).

                  The theoretical prediction without any further effects than density fluctuations (the source of these is primordial) would be that the power spectrum (reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spheric...ctrum_analysis) of anisotropies would be flat. In actuality it looks like this:


                  The most important effect taking a flat power spectrum to the multipeaked one I attached is the gravitational collapse of density fluctuations leading to the existence of so-called acoustic modes. Reference http://astro.berkeley.edu/~mwhite/rosetta/node6.html
                  12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                  Stadtluft Macht Frei
                  Killing it is the new killing it
                  Ultima Ratio Regum

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                  • Ahh, ok I misunderstood what you meant by scattering.
                    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                    • The surface of last scattering occurred when nuclei and electrons combined to form atoms. Prior to this they were in thermal equilibrium with the cmb. Afterward they were not (the cross-section of interaction between atomic matter and light is much smaller than between a plasma and light) and this happened very suddenly (on a cosmological timescale). The cmb is therefore a snapshot of the surface of last scattering, mod stuff like the sachs-wolfe effect.
                      12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                      Stadtluft Macht Frei
                      Killing it is the new killing it
                      Ultima Ratio Regum

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                      • My threads expand knowledge endlessly in a finite sorta way.
                        Long time member @ Apolyton
                        Civilization player since the dawn of time

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                        • Originally posted by Lancer
                          My threads expand knowledge endlessly in a finite sorta way.
                          Lancer

                          Thank you
                          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                          • Long time member @ Apolyton
                            Civilization player since the dawn of time

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                            • From a GR perspective, I actually don't know what would happen. I've never tried to add angular momentum in to the FRW metric.


                              IIRC, angular momentum conservation drops out of a metric with asymptotic flatness...
                              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                              -Bokonon

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                              • Huh? Is that a statement about inflation?
                                12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                                Stadtluft Macht Frei
                                Killing it is the new killing it
                                Ultima Ratio Regum

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