Taking science on faith

[BeBMan]

This confuses me again. Is religion just a form of science or of atheism or of both?!?

[DinoDoc]

They are all a form of filosofy.

[Winston]

Originally posted by Zoid
Do you think I'm Jesus?

Well, no.

Jesus doesn't keep an image of a farting rabbit just below his screen name, I know that much.

[Ben Kenobi]

Of course the word "Law" or "Rule" has a dual meaning. Traditionally it means "This is what you must do, otherwise you risk punishment", while scientifically it means "This is what XYZ is like".

The problem is that people have lost the concept of what a natural law is. Law is also another way to express a system of order which structures the universe, the rules by which the universe operates on.

It doesn't mean, this is what XYZ is like at all.

Yes, it's an old concept, but I can't see anything else express the idea nearly so well.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Winston
Jesus doesn't keep an image of a farting rabbit just below his screen name, I know that much.

You do not.... Liar.

[Ben Kenobi]

I see no one has responded to my argument agreeing that we need to respect the differences between the individual brands of athiesm.

A religion makes claims about the nature of the universe and the basis for human morality, it creates rules about behavior towards others and the world around.

Ok. Let's look at the Manifesto.

1. The manifesto claims that the universe operates on a historical dialectic, and that this process is constant and mechanical, like a millstone grinding down wheat into flour. The dialectic is also inevitable, in that human will cannot alter how it proceeds. They can only go with the flow or resist.

2. The manifesto claims that human society is primarily ordered into a series of classes, based on the ownership of the means of production. The upper classes, the bourgeosie own the production, while the workers do not, and are deprived of the fruits of their labour. The manifesto calls this arrangement oppressive, and that it is contrary to the well being of the collective.

3. The manifesto states that each class should behave like everyone else in their classes and that the lower classes, the workers should revolt against the bourgeosie and gain control of the means of production for themselves.

4. Once this system has been toppled, and all these archaic societies are crushed, the world will unite and there will be peace.

As Theben already said, if I say: "there are no gods" and then give the issue no further thought, that is NOT a religion under any useful or sane definition.

Very true.

Marxism, on the other hand fulfills all of your criterion, as well as one you didn't mention, that it makes predictions as to an 'end time'.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by snoopy369


I've not seen many arguments against that (that Atheism is anything except a belief that there is/are no god(s).)

However, many of us consider that (akin to) a religion (in that it is a specific belief, as opposed to not caring or having no opinion on the subject). There is no more evidence of the lack of god any more than there is evidence of God (and therefore it is a belief and not a fact).

Jesus Snoopy, just because I believe that pigs fly doesn't mean that I have a religion based on that.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Jesus Snoopy, just because I believe that pigs fly doesn't mean that I have a religion based on that.

But by believing in science you are believing that pigs don't fly.

By believing in science you are not believing that God doesn't exist.

JM

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Jon Miller



But by believing in science you are believing that pigs don't fly.

By believing in science you are not believing that God doesn't exist.

JM

I would call it an assumption more than a belief. How can you do science when you believe in miracles?

[Blake]

Originally posted by Donegeal
So with this debate in mind, is science (or Physics) a religion?

Black and white question. No maybe's or perhaps's (or bananas as this isn't a poll). Yes or no. Give reason.

Religion is a word. Science is a word. Thus both religion and science belong to the category "words" or "mental formations". They are the same thing and if science is a religion then it's equally true that religion is a science. Anyone can arrange their mental formations in those ways if they wish.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Kidicious


I would call it an assumption more than a belief. How can you do science when you believe in miracles?

Easily? I don't really see the problem. I don't see God as fiddling with my data every time I make a measurement. In fact, I consider God to be a very ordered god, and to generally not mess with the design of His universe at all.

Tell me what you think the differences are between asumptions and beliefs?

JM

[Aeson]

Science is not a religion. You can have religions based on anything, even science, but science itself is not a religion.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Jesus Snoopy, just because I believe that pigs fly doesn't mean that I have a religion based on that.

Hopefully it means you have factual evidence supporting the hypothesis that Pigs can fly... otherwise you might as well consider it akin to a religion.

I am not trying to suggest that atheism is actually a religion, in the sense the word is typically used - although in some areas it is remarkably close. I am trying to suggest that Atheists who denigrate religious believers because of their unfounded belief in God, are no better off, because they have an unfounded belief in (no God). Unless and until God is proven or disproven, neither side is any better.

Someone who doesn't care about god existing or not existing, and thus doesn't follow religious scripture etc., is not an atheist. They just don't care, and would be called 'agnostic', although as we've debated before this term may or may not be accurate.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


Easily? I don't really see the problem. I don't see God as fiddling with my data every time I make a measurement. In fact, I consider God to be a very ordered god, and to generally not mess with the design of His universe at all.

Tell me what you think the differences are between asumptions and beliefs?

JM

Well let me ask you this? How do you think people break the cicle of addiction? Scientifically you might say that when a person is addicted they can not stop their compulsive order because their thinking is screwed up. How would you explain someone recovering from addiction? If you believe in God than you might call that a miracle. I'm saying that's not a scientific explaination.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Blake


Religion is a word. Science is a word. Thus both religion and science belong to the category "words" or "mental formations". They are the same thing and if science is a religion then it's equally true that religion is a science. Anyone can arrange their mental formations in those ways if they wish.

Blake is wiser than I thought. But he's still too loud for a buddhist!

The waterfall rushes and shouts, yet it is empty inside. The pond remains silent and still, teeming with life.