Individual Right to Bear Arms

[Jaguar]

To save time, everyone should just make their arguments in this easy template format:

My arguments are right because such and such place has a higher/lower crime rate than another completely different place. This disparity is obviously caused by the stricter/more lenient gun laws, not obviously relevant factors like culture/income level/being two entirely different places. You are a moron because my fallacious arguments aren't convincing to you. Generic troll pertaining to libertarianism.

[Kuciwalker]

JIAR

[David Floyd]

Poverty causes crime. Poverty and guns cause gun crime.

Now that, I can largely agree with. In theory.

In reality, we again come back to the fact that there are tens of millions of firearms in the United States, and, besides the domestically produced guns, plenty more are shipped in illegally.

So, then, just because poverty+availability of guns leads to gun crimes, it doesn't follow that banning guns will eliminate or even greatly reduce gun crime. We have to deal in realities, so anyone who makes the argument that the US should ban firearms as a means to combat crime also has to address the availability issue. If you can't reduce availability, banning guns is pointless, and probably will have the effect of only harming law abiding citizens.

This doesn't take into account the legal aspect - a federal firearm ban would be unconstitutional, but that's not necessarily my point, or at least not my only point.

[Colonâ„¢]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Poverty causes crime.

Then how come the Hassidic community around here, which is pretty poor, is barely causing any trouble?

It'd be more correct to say there's a relationship, but that the nature of it is disputed.

[Jaguar]

My only real point is that it's obvious the founders intended for people to have actual guns, and that was that, and there's absolutely no question about what right the 2nd amendment guarantees.

If you want to say "OK, but the 2nd amendment is obsolete," that's fine, but you should actually have the balls to challenge it, not try to pretend that it means what you would like it to mean.

[Asher]

Originally posted by David Floyd
I agree it can be a function of both. Asher seems to think that the sole act of banning firearms will solve gun crime.

Never said that, the act of banning firearms will assuredly reduce availability and thus reduce homicides and many related crimes.

The fundamental issue is that of a gun culture in the US. And you're always going to have it unless you make guns unsavoury rather than something a grandma should get to protect her from muggings.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by David Floyd

Crime isn't linked to race, and the root cause of crime also isn't the tools used to commit crime. Crime is linked to poverty. Or do you disagree?

:yawn: That tired old excuse again. How many times does this need to be disproved?

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Asher

Burglaries per capita in Texas in 2006: 0.009 (http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm)

Burglaries per capita in Alberta: 0.007 (http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publi...2005_03_07.doc)

If guns are a deterrent, why is it higher in the gun capital of the world?

I would blame it on the weather factor, it's too cold to commit crime in Canada.

ACK!

[Elok]

Originally posted by Wezil
:yawn: That tired old excuse again. How many times does this need to be disproved?

Well, let's do a thought experiment. Suppose little Johnny has an iPod. But it's not a very nice iPod of the sort he would want, and his friends have nicer iPods. Johnny is thus relatively poor in material possessions. Isn't it natural that Johnny would therefore go into a Wal-Mart and take a better iPod, and to hell with society? Assuming, of course, that Wal-Mart didn't have an enlightened policy of giving away iPods to fast-talking street thugs; criminal behavior ceases to be criminal in nature when nobody bothers to prosecute it.

[Ben Kenobi]

I would blame it on the weather factor, it's too cold to commit crime in Canada.

What self respecting hoodlum would find himself outside breaking into houses when it's -40?

[TheStinger]

Crime is more prevalent in poorer communities, if those people have access to guns then the crimes committed will be worse.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi




What self respecting hoodlum would find himself outside breaking into houses when it's -40?

A cold one?

[C0ckney]

Originally posted by Elok
Assuming, of course, that Wal-Mart didn't have an enlightened policy of giving away iPods to fast-talking street thugs;

hehe, i'd forgotten about that little episode.

[GePap]

The Newshour had clips of the arguments yesterday, and given that Justice Kennedy was pressing the lawyers for DC about the wording of the clause and basically stating that the initial militia clause was just a re-statement of pieces of articles 1 and 2, it appears that the court will back the notion that there is an individual right to bear arms regardless of any connection to organized militias.

The question is what kind of test for future regulation they will set - the Appelate court set up an immensely strenous test that would be very difficult for the government to meet, which is why the Solicitor General asked the Court not to back that standard. Lets hope that even when the court does an about face on all previous legal rulings on the matter prior to this Appelate Court decision, they don't impose that court's crazy standard.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Im getting real tired of the bullsh1it excuses of im poor so i commit crimes, i was abused thats why i do it. It a fuc8ing choice and when ya do its the wrong choice. The cycles can be broken its a matter of choice of the indvidual, if u want to hug the crutch to excuse u for ur actions thats makes you a bigger a$$ then u act like. So this bull sh1t bout my past and surroundings made me do it is getting old.