Individual Right to Bear Arms

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by CrONoS


I don't know, I have the feeling that Alberta is richer than Texas.

I have a feeling you're misinformed.

[Asher]

How cool is this? Do you think guns affect how many people die?

[Asher]

Knives are just a deadly as guns, I say!

[Asher]

Originally posted by David Floyd


And yet, even with handguns banned in DC, crime remains extremely high, including gun crime. Seems to indicate that every situation - every society - requires a different solution. US and Canada are not the same entity, with the same problems, solutions, and societies.

Yes, and one of the fundamental problems with the US is there is too much liberty given to crazy people. Something you like to encourage.

Link me to the DC crime stats. Show me with some reasonable timeframe (eg, >5 years so the affect of already-present handguns is diminished) that the homicide rate is unaffected.

[David Floyd]

Also, per capita, I would suspect that Alberta IS richer than Texas, given the fact that Texas boasts several cities with populations of greater than 500,000 (Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, Houston, El Paso, Fort Worth), and several others between 200k and 500k (Arlington, Garland, Corpus Christi, Laredo, Lubbock, and Irving, with Amarillo and Brownsville being close), whereas similar figures for Alberta show, AFAIK, only Edmonton and Calgary with similar populations, while the entire population of Alberta is less than that of the Dallas Metroplex or the Houston area here in Texas.

Add to that the fact that Texas features a pretty hefty trade in drugs and illegal aliens, due to our proximity to the Mexican border.

So, we have more poor people, more illegal aliens, a greater drug trade, and you want to pin the crime problems on GUNS?

[DinoDoc]

Out of interest, how many of you have actually read the opinion being appealed?

[Asher]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Also, per capita, I would suspect that Alberta IS richer than Texas, given the fact that Texas boasts several cities with populations of greater than 500,000 (Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, Houston, El Paso, Fort Worth), and several others between 200k and 500k (Arlington, Garland, Corpus Christi, Laredo, Lubbock, and Irving, with Amarillo and Brownsville being close), whereas similar figures for Alberta show, AFAIK, only Edmonton and Calgary with similar populations, while the entire population of Alberta is less than that of the Dallas Metroplex or the Houston area here in Texas.

Add to that the fact that Texas features a pretty hefty trade in drugs and illegal aliens, due to our proximity to the Mexican border.

Yeah, well, we have to border with the US -- which is far more dangerous. Mexico is no excuse!

So, we have more poor people

This is the fault of an excessively libertarian government.

more illegal aliens

If you fixed your immigration system, they wouldn't all be illegal.

a greater drug trade

I think you grossly underestimate the pervasiveness of drugs in Canada. Have you never heard of BC Bud, for instance?

and you want to pin the crime problems on GUNS?

Statistically, you have a helluva lot more people murdered. And in the US, guns are usually the tool of murder.

Guns are far more effective at killing people than other weapons. Canada has far stricter gun laws. Canada has far less people murdered. It's one of many factors, but another underlying factor is the influence of Libertarian ideals at the highest levels of government such that you have children running amok with guns.

[Ben Kenobi]

Burglaries per capita in Texas in 2006: 0.009 (http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm)

Burglaries per capita in Alberta: 0.007 (http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publ..._2005_03_07.doc)

http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/Products/Analytic/companion/age/ab.cfm

Average Age Alberta: 35

http://www.eredux.com/states/demographics.php?id=1112

Average Age Texas: 32


Are you going to get robbed by old guys in wheelchairs? Doubtful.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yes, and one of the fundamental problems with the US is there is too much liberty given to crazy people.

So it's better that there's no liberty that way crazy people are less free and so is everyone else?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/Products/Analytic/companion/age/ab.cfm

Average Age Alberta: 35

http://www.eredux.com/states/demographics.php?id=1112

Average Age Texas: 32


Are you going to get robbed by old guys in wheelchairs? Doubtful.

Oh yes, a minor difference in age is entirely the whole reason behind this.

Here's something you didn't mention:

Calgary's average age is 34.9
Edmonton's average age is 35.4

Yet Calgary's burglary rate is much lower than Edmonton.

Explain, given this basis you just insulted us all with.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


So it's better that there's no liberty that way crazy people are less free and so is everyone else?

No liberty? Ben, buddy, for once in your life, address the argument at hand. This isn't a binary liberty/no liberty.

Life is more complicated than your brain will allow you to comprehend, it seems.

[David Floyd]

Yeah, well, we have to border with the US -- which is far more dangerous. Mexico is no excuse!

Except, perhaps, as a reason there are more poor people here than in Alberta

This is the fault of an excessively libertarian government.

Or maybe it's the fact that we have 10 times the population of Canada

If you fixed your immigration system, they wouldn't all be illegal.

Which doesn't apply to the issue at hand, except to make my point, that there are solutions other than banning guns that will be equally, if not more, effective in stemming gun violence.

As for your example of gun-crime reductions in DC, remember than the handgun ban was passed in the 1970s, and we didn't start seeing significant reductions in gun crime until less than 10 years ago. Those reductions were more because of efforts to combat GANG-related violence, as well as increasing property values (ie, increasing wealth) throughout the city. Also, many, if not most, of the firearms used to commit crimes in DC were procured from neighboring states such as Maryland and Virginia. States which, incidentally, DO NOT ban handguns, and which also do not have the same level of crime as DC.

[Ben Kenobi]

Out of interest, how many of you have actually read the opinion being appealed?

My prediction: Rejected

Thomas, Scalia, Roberts, Alito, Kennedy (Concurring)

Breyer, Souter, Stevens, Ginsburg (Dissent)

[Asher]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Or maybe it's the fact that we have 10 times the population of Canada

This is a new one. The more people you have, the more poor people you have per capita?

Which doesn't apply to the issue at hand, except to make my point, that there are solutions other than banning guns that will be equally, if not more, effective in stemming gun violence.

Do you even read what you say sometimes?

As for your example of gun-crime reductions in DC, remember than the handgun ban was passed in the 1970s, and we didn't start seeing significant reductions in gun crime until less than 10 years ago.

1) Link it, beyotch
2) So we saw reductions once we had a generational shift in mindset and availability?

Those reductions were more because of efforts to combat GANG-related violence, as well as increasing property values (ie, increasing wealth) throughout the city.

Link it, beyotch

Also, many, if not most, of the firearms used to commit crimes in DC were procured from neighboring states such as Maryland and Virginia. States which, incidentally, DO NOT ban handguns

Link it, beyotch.

And this is actually a phenomenal argument you just made on why they should be banned federally.

[David Floyd]

This is a new one. The more people you have, the more poor people you have per capita?

No, the more immigrants who come, both legally and illegally, to this country, creates more poor people. The US has a HUGE influx of immigrants from developing nations, who don't exactly start off rich. We also have a large number of poor minorities, such as blacks, who are poor NOT because of Libertarian policies, but partyly because of the existence of NON-LIBERTARIAN policies (slavery, Jim Crow, etc.).

Crime isn't linked to race, and the root cause of crime also isn't the tools used to commit crime. Crime is linked to poverty. Or do you disagree?