Top 10 Signs You Live in a Police State

[Dinner]

http://www.cbpp.org/4-20-07tax2-f1.jpg

Defense is 21% of the budget which ties Social Security for the single largest item.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Any professional interrogator (FBI, etc.) or ex-POW (.e.g. McCain) will tell you torture is counterproductive. It merely gets you the "information" that will stop the torturing, not the information that is true.

I don't get why people keep repeating this canard like a broken record. If the information given turns out to be false, what's stopping someone from going back and torturing a second time?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Darius871


I don't get why people keep repeating this canard like a broken record. If the information given turns out to be false, what's stopping someone from going back and torturing a second time?

If the torturers know what is true or not, why are they torturing the guy in the first place?

Listen: Torture is inhumane, illegal and unconstitutional. It's only proper place is in a police state. Why do you guys have such a desire to engage in it??

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
And that scores us a perfect 10 out of 10.

I'm afraid you, Ming, and Rah account for the highest portion of the budget. Your lobbyists also hamper efforts at reforming that fact as well.

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


If the torturers know what is true or not, why are they torturing the guy in the first place?

Listen: Torture is inhumane, illegal and unconstitutional. It's only proper place is in a police state. Why do you guys have such a desire to engage in it??

Not unconstitutional or illegal if done to non citizen terror fighters. And not inhumane if you know the individual has information that could save thousands.

[Zkribbler]

(1) What the heck are you talking about &
(2) What does it have to do with a police state

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
(1) What the heck are you talking about &

Social Security and other entitlement programs for Baby Boomers.

(2) What does it have to do with a police state

I dunno. You and MosesPresley seem to think Defense Spending is a) the largest portion of the budget and b) that is a sign that we're a police state.

I just thought that I'd point out the basis of that assumption (Defense being the largest portion of the budget) is wrong.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
If the torturers know what is true or not, why are they torturing the guy in the first place?

Don't be obtuse. The timeline is very simple: 1) man gets tortured, 2) man gives authorities phony information in order to stop the torture, 3) authorities go out and verify that the information given was in fact false, and 4) man gets tortured a second time. Lather, rinse, and repeat until something you get does turn out to be valuable. It's not that complicated.

If you want to make the "it's wrong because it's wrrrrrrroooooooong" argument feel free to do so and I'd personally agree with you, but this crap about torture never bearing fruit is just ridiculous and you know it.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
I just thought that I'd point out the basis of that assumption (Defense being the largest portion of the budget) is wrong.

Social Security isn't part of the budget.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Wiglaf


Not unconstitutional or illegal if done to non citizen terror fighters. And not inhumane if you know the individual has information that could save thousands.

Take a look at this:

Amendment VIII

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Where does the Constitution say or even imply that these protections are only for U.S. citizens?

[Darius871]

Where does the Constitution say or even imply that extraction of vital information is directly analogous to "punishment"?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Social Security isn't part of the budget.

Sophistry won't change the fact that entitlements account for a greater portion of the outflow of government monies then defense.

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


Take a look at this:



Where does the Constitution say or even imply that these protections are only for U.S. citizens?

Obviously this is a matter of interpretation, considering the bill of rights was established to protect American citizens and not terrorists.

Earlier in the 2004 Hamdi case, the right to suspend habeas corpus temporarily to non citizen terror suspects, like ones in gitmo, was upheld by the supreme court. But the idea is indefinite detentions are not legal, says nothing about torture.

[Zkribbler]

Re: Top 10 Signs You Live in a Police State

Originally posted by MosesPresley
1. Your nation has the highest per capita of its population in prison.

2. Your nation spends the majority of its budget on national defense.

3. You are not allowed to move about the country without your national ID card. (coming soon to a DMV near you http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/p...0317/1006/NEWS)

4. Camera surveillance is prevalent in most public spaces.

5. Habeas Corpus is suspended for political criminals.

6. Torture is acceptable.

7. Secret searches are acceptable.

8. All telecommunications are monitored.

9. Free speech zones.



10. No 48" pizzas.

Feel free to make your own list.

So, you guys have proven No. 6.

[Wiglaf]

All we've proven is that torture can be acceptable in extreme cases without having a police state, which is one of the idiotic assertions in the OP.