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I argue that they are political prisoners since they are not recognized as pow's. "Illegal enemy combatant" is just a dodge.
So if they are not POWs they are automatically political prisoners? I can see why that might be convienent for your motives, but there is no reason why that should be the case.
There's something wrong with you. Butt out of my thread, unless you have something worthwhile to offer.
Yes, I can see why pointing out glaring flaws in your ill concieved trolls as well as using facts during the brief portion of this thread where I took your OP semi-seriously might seem wierd to you given this trainwreck of a thread you've started here.
Train wrecks
"The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.
Originally posted by Wiglaf
He is just making things up now.
Recently, Congress passed a controversial bill which grants the President the right to commandeer Federal or even state National Guard Troops and use them inside the United States. This bill, entitled the John Warner Defense Appropriation Act for Fiscal Year 2007 (H.R. 5122.ENR), contains a provision, (Section 1076) which allows the President to:
“...employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to...
restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States..., where the President determines that,...domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order;
suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy...” [3]
Senator Patrick Leahy and others have condemned Section 1076 because it effectively nullifies the Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act (10 U.S.C. 331-335) and gives the President the legal ability to define under what conditions martial law may be declared. [4]
H.R.5122 was signed into law by President Bush on October 17, 2006, and will take effect October 1, 2007 (unless an earlier effective date is established by regulation). "On the same day, Bush signed the Military Commissions Act of 2006, which abolishes the legal protection of habeas corpus, authorizes the president to detain and jail anyone (even US citizens) without charge and subject them to harsh interrogation that may or may not involve torture."
"In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry Lime
H.R.5122 was signed into law by President Bush on October 17, 2006, and will take effect October 1, 2007 (unless an earlier effective date is established by regulation). "On the same day, Bush signed the Military Commissions Act of 2006, which abolishes the legal protection of habeas corpus, authorizes the president to detain and jail anyone (even US citizens) without charge and subject them to harsh interrogation that may or may not involve torture."
This is patently false. Read the Military Commissions Act of 2006. It does no such thing, and was passed overwhelmingly in the Senate (12 democrats supported it, in fact). Saying that it abolishes habeas corpus is laughable.
“...employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to...
restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States..., where the President determines that,...domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order;
suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy...” [3]
Sounds good to me. If you've got a terror attack and no public order, time to send in the national guard.
"The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.
Two things strike me as i read through this thread:
1.) Liberals always shout about a "police state" and
2.) Conservatives always ignore the erosion of our rights.
My net conclusion is, that although we are not in a police state, that the trend is certainly worth looking at very closely.
"I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003
Thank you PLATO, that is entirely my point, the erosion of our rights, but you put it much more succinctly. I'm not shouting police state, but we are dangerously flirting with many aspects of one and we should be aware of how many of rights that were once being taken for granted are being lost.
We still live in a democracy and change can still be brought about through elections.
"In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry Lime
Originally posted by MosesPresley
Thank you PLATO, that is entirely my point, the erosion of our rights, but you put it much more succinctly. I'm not shouting police state, but we are dangerously flirting with many aspects of one and we should be aware of how many of rights that were once being taken for granted are being lost.
We still live in a democracy and change can still be brought about through elections.
Why do you think having more rights is more protection from your nation becoming a police state though. Is there any historical evidence that rights erosion causes a police state?
I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
- Justice Brett Kavanaugh
"In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry Lime
I'm not shouting police state, but we are dangerously flirting with many aspects of one and we should be aware of how many of rights that were once being taken for granted are being lost.
Yes, that is exactly what you were doing.
If I saw some overwhelming shift towards a police state I would be screaming at the top of my lungs about it, but what you are describing are barely perceptable shifts by the slightest degree, all still well within the thresholds of liberal democracy.
Stop chicken littling it.
"The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.
Yeah, barely perceptible. That's what torture is, barely perceptible. OOOOKAAAY, you win. Everything is just hunky dory.
"In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry Lime
Yeah, barely perceptible. That's what torture is, barely perceptible. OOOOKAAAY, you win. Everything is just hunky dory.
Just becasue police states torture, does not mean only police states torture.
Again, you picked your bullets becasue you think they exist, not becasue they have any real realtionship to police states.
"The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.
Just becasue police states torture, does not mean only police states torture.
Again, you picked your bullets becasue you think they exist, not becasue they have any real realtionship to police states.
You seemed hyped to cry I'm being arbitrary. What is your point?
"In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry Lime
People accept toture because their nuts. I don't see how giving them more freedoms is going to solve that problem.
Giving people freedom from being tortured while in custody and to be treated fairly, would solve that problem.
"In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed. But they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love. They had 500 years of democracy and peace. And what did that produce? The cuckoo clock."
—Orson Welles as Harry Lime
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