Why are you not a Christian

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll


Wernazuma III

Just to clarify, you dont tell me squat, I have respect, I have in addition to respect, knowledge of when something is incorrect.

YOU need to know the difference, PERIOD!

Smoke dem apples

anything else sweetheart?

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Kidicious


That's why I'm not religious.

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III

[Blake]

Originally posted by BeBro
Damn ethics, law, constitution and stuff, because they tell us what to do (and often what not to do, and often with sanctions in case of 'misbehaviour', so with a clear "or else")

Using laws and rules as anything more than guidance is moronic.

In my case as a kid, I quickly noticed that innocence didn't matter diddly squat, what mattered when it came to enforcement of rules was the assumptions of those with the power to enforce.

And so I put "Don't get caught!" at least as important as "Follow the rules", even while following the rules it was important to not get caught, if authority comes looking to hand out punishment - run away, even if you're innocent.

I saw the entire system of justice, to be so unsatisfactory, that using it as anything more than guidance would be unbearable.

The important distinction here, is that the general human justice system at large, has credible threats. Like with speeding, there is a well defined probability of getting caught, and a well defined sum of money to pay, and a well defined probability of causing harm, and a well defined time saving... it's a little complicated, but you can treat it with the rules of game theory and decide the optimal level of law-breaking, rather than just blindly following the law. And I tend to condone doing that because we shouldn't put out faith in the justice system as being infallible. It isn't.

[Blake]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll


So a person says it is ok to rape a person, because they want to have dat thang, I shouldnt say that they are wrong?

A person is going 120 MPH in a vehicle, on a one way road, headed for a dead end wall or cliff, and will perish,, I should not say stop speeding, slow dont and turn around?



Im not insulting, just sharing, others insult God all day here, insult Jesus all day, not many seem to take exception, let someone speak about ~gasp~ a small insignifigant deity wanna B and all heck breaks loose.

There are important belifs, and beliefs which aren't so important.

The important, high priority believes, are believing in peace, freedom, forgiveness, love, kindness, caring, compassion. Because that truly is the important thing.

The lower priority beliefs, the ones which must not take precedence over the important beliefs, are things like a belief in God. It doesn't matter to me what you believe, as long as that belief doesn't get in the way of the important beliefs.

If a belief in God, enhances your sense of the important beliefs, then that is good. But PLEASE recognize what the IMPORTANT beliefs actually are.

Certainly my belief in Buddha as a teacher, enhances my sense of the important beliefs, so it is good. But the important thing to me, is that you share the important beliefs, not my belief in Buddha as a teacher.


If you value the important beliefs, you actually have to try and get others to raise the importance of those beliefs, ahead of the other ones (else you aren't valuing them enough). So you do have to be "intolerant" of their foolish beliefs, when those beliefs are getting in the way... and it can't be any other way.

That's why the ability to take an insult is important and revealing, when you make stupid beliefs important, you get easily insulted when others disagree with you and insult your beliefs.
But if you make Forgiveness extremely important... how can anyone insult you? They can insult forgiveness itself, and you can just say "I forgive you. Because forgiveness is just that important to me".

To put it bluntly. I am never going to respect any belief which gets in the way of forgiveness, peace, caring, love, compassion etc... and that is other peoples problem, not my problem.

[Nostromo]

This just in!

[DirtyMartini]

Originally posted by Nostromo
This just in!

Heretic!

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Blake


There are important belifs, and beliefs which aren't so important.

The important, high priority believes, are believing in peace, freedom, forgiveness, love, kindness, caring, compassion. Because that truly is the important thing.

The lower priority beliefs, the ones which must not take precedence over the important beliefs, are things like a belief in God. It doesn't matter to me what you believe, as long as that belief doesn't get in the way of the important beliefs.

If a belief in God, enhances your sense of the important beliefs, then that is good. But PLEASE recognize what the IMPORTANT beliefs actually are.

Certainly my belief in Buddha as a teacher, enhances my sense of the important beliefs, so it is good. But the important thing to me, is that you share the important beliefs, not my belief in Buddha as a teacher.


If you value the important beliefs, you actually have to try and get others to raise the importance of those beliefs, ahead of the other ones (else you aren't valuing them enough). So you do have to be "intolerant" of their foolish beliefs, when those beliefs are getting in the way... and it can't be any other way.

That's why the ability to take an insult is important and revealing, when you make stupid beliefs important, you get easily insulted when others disagree with you and insult your beliefs.
But if you make Forgiveness extremely important... how can anyone insult you? They can insult forgiveness itself, and you can just say "I forgive you. Because forgiveness is just that important to me".

To put it bluntly. I am never going to respect any belief which gets in the way of forgiveness, peace, caring, love, compassion etc... and that is other peoples problem, not my problem.

Blake, I applaud your convictions.

The only point I have to offer now to anyone who doesnt like it is this:

You downplay God, I downplay budda.

My beliefs are important to me and your beliefs are important to you. You cant say (well you can say but doesnt make it right) that my beliefs are not important, they are.

[q=blake]There are important belifs, and beliefs which aren't so important.

The important, high priority believes, are believing in peace, freedom, forgiveness, love, kindness, caring, compassion. Because that truly is the important thing.

The lower priority beliefs, the ones which must not take precedence over the important beliefs, are things like a belief in God. It doesn't matter to me what you believe, as long as that belief doesn't get in the way of the important beliefs.[/q]


Now, we both going through life, when the last breath is taken by us, where do we end up?

You have your belief and I have mine.

I am not mad at you for being this way, I am however concerned that when we both say our parts, it is called intollerant.

heck, I am headed to Heaven, I wish you would be there, but unless you change you wont.

This is not saying your a bad guy, it is merely affirming your conviction, you dont believe or support in God. This doesnt insult you for merely stating what you have stated, I am quoting facts.

Bow to budda, enjoy your self and have a blessed day.

Gramps

[Proteus_MST]

Well, if you finally end in heaven it is not upon to you to decide,
as well as it isn´t upon blake to decide wether he is headed for Nirvana, another reincarnation, heaven, purgatory or hell.

You cannot prove the correctness of your beliefs before you get to the afterlife, that is why it is a "belief" and not a "fact".

The underlying truth might be exactly as you believe, but it might as well be totally dfifferent.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
have a blessed day.

People here always say that to me here. Just wondering. Why say that to people who aren't Christian?

[DirtyMartini]

Grandpa Troll--

I know, none of my business, I should just keep my mouth shut, but...

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll


aint this you god?

Lil fat Budda staute, bow down worship idol?

Even if not intolerant -- it's certainly condescending, intentionally obtuse, and horribly insulting. While Blake may not mind and probably won't object, I personally find offensive your failure to admit/realize that.

You seem to not be the world's best typist, and chopped up grammar often sounds more malicious than intended, but I don't think that's the whole story.

I can understand that you're a man of strong conviction and may object to some statements about Christianity, and some have certainly been a bit over the top, but keep in mind that this thread was started for the expressed purpose of stating one's own personal reasons why one is not a Christian. That's what most have done, and most have done it in a measured way.

I'm not saying Blake (and others) are guiltless here, but I've seen the -- insult, insult, insult, righteous indignation, pseudo-apology, we all cool now -- act from you a time or three, and it gets old.

I realize I'm new here and all so feel free to take that or leave it as you see fit.

[DinoDoc]

@ DM: Religion threads here = troll threads. They may not start out that way but they always end up that way. Best just to accept that because regardless of how much you or I might wish it, that aspect of Poly culture won't change.

PS: Are you a Vodka Martini? Are you shaken or stirred?

[DirtyMartini]

DinoDoc-

Yeah, I do know better. I regretting posting it right after I did, just adds to the noise. Plus there's plenty of blame to go around. Self included.

The only real martini is a gin martini. Shaken. But I'm more of a beer guy, really. Just happened to be drinking a martini when I registered.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Proof that atheists actually support equal homosexual rights more than Christians?

Are you serious? You don't believe that -- out in the West -- more people opposing gay marriage are religious than not?

Thought this was obvious. I suppose you do live in the south, so you are out of touch with the rest of the world.

This is a US poll:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/19/opinion/polls/main589551.shtml

For people who think marriage is a RELIGIOUS matter:
Favour gay marriage: 24%
Oppose gay marriage: 71%

For people who think marriage is a LEGAL matter:
Favour gay marriage: 55%
Oppose gay marriage: 42%


And: http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=765

The most common reasons given for objecting to gay and lesbian marriage are moral and religious. Asked in an open-ended format their main reason for opposing gay marriage, more than a quarter of opponents (28%) explicitly cite the view that homosexuality is immoral, a sin, or inconsistent with biblical teaching, and another 17% say the idea simply is in conflict with their religious beliefs. One-in-five who oppose gay marriage explain their position in less moral, and more literal terms, saying that the definition of marriage involves a man and a woman (16%), or that the purpose of marriage is reproduction (4%).

http://pewforum.org/gay-marriage/

Polls show that religiosity is a factor in the opposition to gay marriage. According to an August 2007 survey by the Pew Forum, Americans oppose gay marriage 55% to 36%, but those with a high level of religious commitment oppose it by a substantially wider margin of 73% to 21%. Opposition among white evangelicals is even higher, at 81%. A majority of black Protestants (64%) also oppose gay marriage, as do pluralities of Catholics (48%) and white mainline Protestants (47%). Only among religiously unaffiliated Americans does a majority (60%) express support.

The largest collection of atheists in the world considers homosexuals to be "undesirables". In fact, the people of the PRC might even constitute a majority of the world's atheists.

China has other cultural issues aside from religion. This doesn't negate or even apply to my point, which is discussed in a Western forum in a Western language about the Western world.

[Blake]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Grandpa Troll

I am not mad at you for being this way, I am however concerned that when we both say our parts, it is called intollerant.

People say what they will, assume what they will. It does not bother me. Since you believe that I bow to buddha statues as some kind of superstitious ritual, I do feel it right to clear up that mistaken belief about me. Delusion is one of the key enemies in Buddhism.

I'd be deluded to believe in God. It might not be the same for you, I don't know.
But I DO know you are deluded to believe I bow to buddha statues, I'm the absolute authority on that matter!

This is not saying your a bad guy, it is merely affirming your conviction, you dont believe or support in God.

If God believes in love and compassion, then I support God even if I don't believe in him.
If God wont let me into heaven, it's on his conscious, not mine.
Seeing as he's all powerful and all-caring and all, I'm sure he's nice enough to just send Buddhists back down to earth (for another go 'round) since it's what they want.