Why are you not a Christian

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Tuberski


Believe in it? I do those things on a daily basis.

ACK!

I guess that the water to wine is quite practical, but why do you walk on water and raise deads ?

Come to think about it - if you can do such, why haven't anybody noticed it ? At least Mrs T should have seen it and I doubt she would have been silent

[Blake]

Originally posted by Geronimo
You haven't really made a case for why it's essential to have no wife or kids to follow the path. Certainly having a wife and kids doesn't seem to fall into the category of superstitious nonsense.

It's not! But perhaps it's analogous to following the path with one of your legs bound to your chest. Extremely awkward and slow. Which is fine if you don't want to devote your life to the path; but that's pretty much what a Monk does.

What those schools of buddhism have in common is approximately this:
What the buddha taught is too hard, so we'll aim for much easier goals.

It's like laying the foundations then deciding it's too hard to build the house. Well sure, the foundations are nice, you're no longer sinking into the mud, but you're still in the rain!

Anyone who understands the idea of "shoot for the moon" should understand that it's foolish to abandon the "hard" stuff.

[Berzerker]

depends on how you define the term... I was baptised Catholic and went to catechism but was never into it. Thought I was an atheist until I learned atheists deny the existence of God and I simply didn't know if God exists, so I became agnostic. But then I just accepted Jesus' teachings without all the religious decoration and try to live my life by the Golden Rule. If I have to declare Jesus the Son of God and my personal savior, then I'm not a Christian - by my reasoning we are all children of God and salvation (if it exists) requires us to be pro-active. I dont know what happens when we die, maybe nothing, maybe something

I dont need any god to recognize the validity and applicability of the Golden Rule, but my belief in a Creator stems from the immensity of the universe. I dont buy into the "it happened naturally" argument even if I cant begin to prove an intelligence or purpose behind it all.

[Ben Kenobi]

Just out of curiosity, how do christian "experiences" differ from belivers of other religions "experiences" ?

I couldn't even answer what it's like for other Christians.

I don't know, it's different for everyone. That's why Christ says that there are many different ways in which the holy spirit will manifest itself. Visions and prophecy is a very rare gift.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll
So you could not have knowledge of A Cadillac, even though you dont own one or drive one?

This doesnt preclude you from having accurate knowledge

The analogy doesn't work because I believe that supernatural things and natural things follow completely different rules.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


I couldn't even answer what it's like for other Christians.

I don't know, it's different for everyone. That's why Christ says that there are many different ways in which the holy spirit will manifest itself. Visions and prophecy is a very rare gift.

Then how do you know that it's a christian and not a say buddist experince you had ?

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I believe Jesus was a great moral teacher. I try to lead my life in accordance to his teachings regarding the treatment of other human beings (though I'll admit I don't even attempt voluntary poverty).

But I don't believe he was divine, let alone God. So I'm out of the club.

[Ben Kenobi]

I know people who consider themselves Chrstians, but don't go to church, don't read the bible, don't pray, don't believe in creationism, don't follow the inconvenient church traditions like fasting, and don't seem to mind being afflicted by some of the deadly sins. They do follow the more common-sense Christian postulates, like, you know, helping people out of the goodness of their heart, rather than for personal gain. Does that make them Christian?

Ask them why they do these things, and let them tell you.

There's plenty of folks who help people out who aren't Christian at all. Helping people isn't in itself a Christian act.

[Ben Kenobi]

Then how do you know that it's a christian and not a say buddist experince you had ?

Reading between the lines eh.

First off, not all christians have them. Standard teaching. It's not, you pray everyday and God will reward you after, that's not how it works. That's not the way it works in Buddhism, where it seems that when you are "truly connected" to him, you see him. That's not a Christian teaching. God isn't a pez dispenser.

Second, the ones who do have them, it is different between each of them. You can read the lives of the saints. They all have different things they say about their own mystical experiences. This is because it's not just God, but it's the connection between him and you. It won't be the same for anyone.

[Aeson]

Old Testament.

Most of the New Testament is good (with or without God actually existing), and widely disregarded by those who claim to be Christian.

Belief is important, but only to cover the (diminishing) gaps in knowledge. Belief shouldn't be the goal... ever.

[Traianvs]

Because I wasn't raised to be one is the most obvious reason why I'm not a Christian. Apart from that I don't see any reason for me to believe in something supernatural, and I don't 'feel' or 'experience' anything religious either.

Being a christian is so artificial. There are numerous varieties with different characteristics, interpretations etc. (and the same goes for other religions) That alone tells me that christianity is simply a story acting upon the religious feelings that humans experience. Exactly because there are so many different stories prove that it's merely a human creation. And after all something man-made can't be supernatural - that would be contradictory. Morals and wise lessons resulting from Christian theology can thus be perceived like the writings of regular non-christian philosophers; after having been purged of all the nonsensical fairy tale mumbo jumbo of course

In short: christian tradition can prove useful to me for gaining some insights here and there, but nothing more.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Asher


That's not what I said at all. I said the world sucks, accept it. Embrace it. Use it to your advantage. Live your life with no regrets.

You don't need religion if you've got the intelligence to think things through yourself.

Sure, we've all seen how much of an original and free thinker you are.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris


Sure, we've all seen how much of an original and free thinker you are.

It's possible to strive for and live for an ideal without actually reaching it.

[Blake]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Reading between the lines eh.

First off, not all christians have them. Standard teaching. It's not, you pray everyday and God will reward you after, that's not how it works. That's not the way it works in Buddhism, where it seems that when you are "truly connected" to him, you see him. That's not a Christian teaching. God isn't a pez dispenser.

I'll give the Buddhist Perspective.

During meditation, or even during daily life (probably during a contemplative moment), it is possible for very powerful mental phenomena to arise, possibly like a bright light, a glow, a warmth - it wont be the same for each person.

It is clearly these things, which lead to people believing in God and such, because they are SO powerful, so warming, and so on. If someone heard some religious teaching, dwelled on it, then experienced such a state, they could very easily and reasonably take it as proof that the religious teachings were true, they could believe they were touched by a God or some such. it is that powerful.

Buddhism is clear on what to do with these; let them go! They aren't important, if you get distracted by these experiences, attribute meaning to them, let your imagination weave stories around them, and so on, you wont enter deeper meditative states, because your mind is like a monkey jumping up and down with excitement over what it is seeing - that's bad for meditation.

And if you do let go of them, you go on to experience even more powerful things. Which really proves quite conclusively that while what you initially encountered may have been a thousand times more powerful than anything you'd ever experienced before; it was still nothing special.

From descriptions and such, it's pretty clear that most religious experiences are quite shallow in terms of buddhist meditative states, they happen at "a thousand times more powerful" not "a million times more powerful".

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris


Sure, we've all seen how much of an original and free thinker you are.

This is very true, whether you can comprehend it or not.