USAians: What are you doing on this loooong MLK weekend?

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Patroklos


In your humble opinion. I agree Jackson should be left out, his sole contribution to history being his military prowess.

Ok. That doesn't leave us much to nitpick over.

[Patroklos]

Ok. That doesn't leave us much to nitpick over.

Eh, probably a good thing

What Lee's enemies thought of him, upon his death in 1870, from the New York Herald:

"Here in the North we . . .have claimed him as one of ourselves. . . have extolled his virtue as reflecting upon us – for Robert E. Lee was an American, and the great nation which gave him birth would be today unworthy of such a son if she regarded him lightly."

These would be the people who should have hated him the most. Odd that.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Which is the reason why I didn't participate in it.

Didn't participate in this thread? Go back and count the posts you have made here.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Patroklos


What Lee's enemies thought of him, upon his death in 1870, from the New York Herald:



These would be the people who should have hated him the most. Odd that.

Yes, it is tragic that inter-sectional reconciliation between North and South came at the expense of blacks and in the spirit of a white supremacist brotherhood.

[Ramo]

I would assume that former slaves had a somewhat `worse opinion of Lee than your average New York editorialist.

[Ramo]

In your humble opinion. I agree Jackson should be left out, his sole contribution to history being his military prowess. But then again it is a state holiday, how many nations celebrate great military heros who did nothing else?

Those Guderian-Rommel day parties that the Germans throw are pretty wild...

[Patroklos]

Yes, it is tragic that inter-sectional reconciliation between North and South came at the expense of blacks and in the spirit of a white supremacist brotherhood.

Honestly where do you get this stuff. Has it ever occured to you that there was more to life back then than the question of slavery? You realize the constitutional hand wringing typified by the stuggle in interrpretation amoungst men like Lee defined the constitutional and political culture we had from 1860 onward, a form of each that had little resemblance to what existed before 1860? Something tells me such considerations went well beyond the pale of slavery.

You need to leave the coloring book verson of the Civil War behind sometime, the subject becomes far more interesting and enlightening when you take the training wheels off.

So let me get this straight. Lincoln holds him in the greatest regard, the very soldiers who fought against him hold him in great regard, the people he lead and ultimately failed hold him in the greates regard, the international community of the day held him in the greatest regard, pretty much everyone except a portion (thats right, a portion) of the ex slaves did and yet you, a non expert in the period 250 years later think your assessment is word of God on the matter?

Those Guderian-Rommel day parties that the Germans throw are pretty wild...

Are not both highly regarded in Germany, as are a great number of German personages from WWII?

In fact, I have never seen any of the none SS type generals villified by historians in the way you guys do Lee, anywhere.

[Ramo]

Highly regarded as generals, not as public figures. The point is that there wouldn't possibly be a Guderian-Rommel Day celebrated by mainstream Germans due to the fact that they fought for the Nazi regime.

[Ben Kenobi]

So you're saying the CONFEDERATE flag has nothing to do with the historical past of the CONFEDERATE States of America?

Quite the opposite. I am saying that it's meaning has become much broader.

[Patroklos]

Highly regarded as generals, not as public figures. The point is that there wouldn't possibly be a Guderian-Rommel Day celebrated by mainstream Germans due to the fact that they fought for the Nazi regime.

Ah, so despite working for Nazis, they recieve less scorn that Lee? Interesting, and also Godwinizing

[Imran Siddiqui]

You act like the Confederates were that much better than the Nazis .

[Ramo]

Whene did I say that Lee wasn't a very talented general? And he seems to have a state-wide holiday. The scorn he recieves looks to be considerably less than someone like Guderian.

Some things are really, realy bad. Like the Southern states' enslavement of about a third of their population. Godwinizing is comparing something relatively banal to the Nazis.

[Patroklos]

You act like the Confederates were that much better than the Nazis

Oh Irman. you know all my presure points

You are evil

Some things are really, realy bad. Like the Southern states' enslavement of about a third of their population. Godwinizing is comparing something relatively banal to the Nazis.

I consider slavery, something practiced within a gernation by the entire world at the time of the CW and the North itself less than a decade before, to be a far cry from gassing milions after working them to near death and inflicting various tortures.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by MrFun
Didn't participate in this thread? Go back and count the posts you have made here.

Read. Think. Then respond.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Patroklos


Honestly where do you get this stuff.

I never earned my Masters in 19th Century U.S. History with specialized focus on Civil War and Reconstruction by using training wheels.

Anyway, passing over the personal insults, to answer your question about where I get the information, here are four of the multitude of scholarly works I have read:

Democracy Reborn: The Fourteenth Amendment and the Fight for Equal Rights in Post-Civil War America by Garrett Epps

Reconstruction: America's Unfinished Revolution, 1863 - 1877 by Eric Foner

Forever Free: The Story of Emancipation and Reconstruction by Eric Foner and Joshua Brown

Race and Reunion: The Civil War in American Memory by David W. Blight