USAians: What are you doing on this loooong MLK weekend?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Thanks Doc.

I suspected that was the case. I don't see why folks in Virginia shouldn't celebrate Lee-Jackson day

Because Lee and Jackson were traitors, ya dip****. I wish there were a way to tell Immigration you support treason against the U.S.

[Riesstiu IV]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
His posts strive to be as obnoxious as possible. If it were every once in awhile, it might be humorous...maybe. But his consistent chatter of banal vileness deserves a viscious whap on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.

I can feel your anger. It gives you focus, makes you stronger.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Reiko
I would have suggested that whites stop with the crack dealing, robbing the corner convenience store for crack money and stop tearing up apartment complexes they live in.
On top of that, support white leaders that call for an end to the idiotic white superiority mentality and the retarded gangster rap culture that many think is cool.

[Ben Kenobi]

Because Lee and Jackson were traitors, ya dip****. I wish there were a way to tell Immigration you support treason against the U.S.

Which is why he told the south to surrender and not continue fighting?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Which is why he told the south to surrender and not continue fighting?

So if Osama bin Laden told Al Queda to surrender and stop fighting today, there should be an Osama Day?

It's very nice of him to decide to surrender when he got his ass handed to him, but he's still a traitor.

[Ben Kenobi]

Osama isn't a citizen of the United States. You forget that everyone in the south was just as much a citizen as were the folks in the North. Lincoln understood this, why couldn't you. It wasn't enemy territory, it was bleeding the blood of Americans no matter which way you slice it.

By your reasoning if the South won the North would be traitors? In their eyes they saw the North as encroaching on the privileges devoted to the States and guaranteed by the US constitution. That's why it took a war to settle the issue.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Osama isn't a citizen of the United States. You forget that everyone in the south was just as much a citizen as were the folks in the North.

And then they took up arms against the United States... making them... traitors! By definition.

By your reasoning if the South won the North would be traitors?

Of course not, because the North did not take up arms against the government of the United States.

[Ben Kenobi]

And then they took up arms against the United States... making them... traitors! By definition.

Just like the Americans in the revolutionary war took up arms against Great Britain.

Of course not, because the North did not take up arms against the government of the United States.

Then the revolutionary Army were traitors to Britain for they did the same, they took up arms against the legitimate government.

It all depends on whether you win or not. If you are on the losing side you are traitors.

[MrFun]

And the ignorance of the American Civil War still shows itself today.

[DinoDoc]

You forget that everyone in the south was just as much a citizen as were the folks in the North.

They ceased being citizens of the US until such time as they were conquered by US forces.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Just like the Americans in the revolutionary war took up arms against Great Britain.

Exactly. If you don't think the American founders were traitors to the British Empire then you are smoking something. And they knew it. They knew that if they did not win, they'd be hoisted up to the gallows and hanged. That's why they pledged their "sacred honor" as well.

It all depends on whether you win or not. If you are on the losing side you are traitors.

Not really, if you take up arms against your sovereign, you are a traitor. Though that may be a good thing if you end up winning.

[Ben Kenobi]

I think there is a fundamental difference between Benedict Arnold, and between Lee. Arnold was given command and authority and sold them out to the British when given a chance. Any honourable man, if he supported the Crown would have fought and died with the loyalists.

Honestly, I don't see the Americans as traitors, their complaints were legitimate. Like in the civil war the negotiations were at an impasse. The situation didn't develop overnight. They fought and died to start a new nation.

Lee, the strange thing about him is that he was drafted by Virginia. That gave him a choice to flee Virginia or accept the burden placed on his shoulders. Lee saw that he had a duty to his state of Virginia and served out his duty. Had Virginia went to the north as Maryland had, I have no doubt that Lee would have served in the Northern Army and fought to defeat the Confederacy.

The second thing reason I don't believe he was a traitor is his conduct after Appotomatox. He could have said that the South should fight on and resist. He did not. He said that the struggle was over and that there was nothing more that could be given. This decision saved countless lives at the end of the civil war. I can't imagine how it would have been like had they tried to occupy the entire South with them fighting tooth and nail. If he was a traitor to the US why did he decide to lay down arms and insist that every fighting man surrender?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I think there is a fundamental difference between Benedict Arnold, and between Lee. Arnold was given command and authority and sold them out to the British when given a chance. Any honourable man, if he supported the Crown would have fought and died with the loyalists.

But if the British won, then Arnold would have been heralded as a great patriot, who was suckered into the propaganda of the revolters, but came to his senses for Crown and country.

He was still originally a traitor against the Brits and then became one for the revolutionaries.

Lee was a traitor against the United States.

I don't see the Americans as traitors, their complaints were legitimate.

I'm thinking that you failed to read the dictionary. Legitimate complaints matter not as to whether you are a traitor.

He could have said that the South should fight on and resist. He did not. He said that the struggle was over and that there was nothing more that could be given.

Because he lost. He realized it was fruitless. The jig, so to speak, was up. At some point you are just throwing your own men to the slaughter. I said Lee was a traitor, I didn't say he was a heartless butcher.

If he was a traitor to the US why did he decide to lay down arms and insist that every fighting man surrender?

He did do this AFTER he raised arms against his country, right? Hence, he was a traitor.

I don't see what the point is of saying that when he realized all was lost he told his men to stop fighting. How does that change the fact that he fought against his country?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

The second thing reason I don't believe he was a traitor is his conduct after Appotomatox. He could have said that the South should fight on and resist. He did not. He said that the struggle was over and that there was nothing more that could be given. This decision saved countless lives at the end of the civil war. I can't imagine how it would have been like had they tried to occupy the entire South with them fighting tooth and nail. If he was a traitor to the US why did he decide to lay down arms and insist that every fighting man surrender?

Do you understand the concept of "before" and "after?"

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by MrFun
Do you understand the concept of "before" and "after?"

Apparently not .

Apparently to Ben, being beaten to a pulp and then telling all your troops to lay down their arms when you could have continued a futile guerrilla campaign means everything is forgiven.