Chavez doesn't understand inflation

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Immigrants obey the law to come here.

That's a very snide and backhanded thing to say given that the government has made it virtually impossible for poor people to come legally yet goes out of its way to make it easy of people to come illegally. That's an intentional policy. They make the nativists, xenophobes, and unions happy by restricting the labor supply then make the businesses happy by not fining employers more then a token amount and not enforcing any immigration laws.

If people like you got your way then we'd have major worker shortages and equally major damage to our economy. Enforcement alone is not the answer unless we also change the immigration system to make it possible for poor people to realistically be able to come legally. 10 years and $10,000 is what it takes in the current system and that's just to long and to costly. We have to change that.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Oerdin
That's a very snide and backhanded thing to say...

Thank you. I do my best. However, reforming the process in order to speed the process of becoming a citizen up is a different question than the one I had been asked earlier.

[Dinner]

On the contrary it is a cause and effect relationship. People come illegally because it is virtually impossible to come legally from the 3rd world unless you get a special waver (H1-B, refugee, or similar). To have to pay 2.5 years salary for the average Mexican peasant, and remember Mexico is relatively well off compared to central Americans & others, is steep money to pay up front especially since they might or might not get allowed in and even if they do it will take an average of 10 years.

[DinoDoc]

The cause is not enforcing immigration law or making any attempt at securing the borders on the part of the government for decades. The effect is the mess we have now.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Oerdin
On the contrary it is a cause and effect relationship. People come illegally because it is virtually impossible to come legally from the 3rd world unless you get a special wave (H1-B, refugee, or similar).

Its so impossible that our population has exploded by 80 million legally in the last 40 years.

[Dinner]

That was a deliberate economic decision because we NEED low paid labor to keep down inflation but the politicians are to spineless to stand up to the nativists, xenophobes, and unions. Your proposed policy really will cause large scale worker shortages, massive increases in inflation, and chase jobs away while harming business.

What's more it is doomed to failure since the worker shortage will only encourage more people to come illegally. Can't you figure out that you're being played by xenophobic politicians? Reform the immigration system so that people have a halfway decent chance of doing things legally and people will come legally. Don't and they won't. It is as simple as that.

[Whoha]

We "need" this labor to drive down every cost that a business has. Well congrats, now they have their record profits, which you have no reason or cause to complain about. Can you figure out that you are being played by big business?

[chequita guevara]

Not really. The cause seems to be, counter-intuitively, the massive enforcement of border controls which means that illegal immigrants are settling in the U.S. with their families rather than being seasonal workers. That actually is a surpris to me. I had rather thought the causes was the late 90s bubble economy that increased demand for low wage earners to build all the new houses and do all the landscaping for the McMansions, and butcher all the factory farm animals.

I suspect that if we made it easier for seasonal workers to enter and leave the U.S. via a temporary visa program such as Bush had proposed (I haven't taken a close look at it to see all what's wrong with it), that the number of permanent migrants would drop. This would take a strain off local services since the children would stay in Mexico and Central America. It would also mean more money going to those economies, which would generate markets which would serve as a reason for more people to stay.

But I'm on drugs, what do I know?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Whoha


Its so impossible that our population has exploded by 80 million legally in the last 40 years.

Most of that has been natural population growth or legalized illegals. Hispanics went from 0% to 15% making them the largest minority group. Plus during the cold war we let anyone in who claimed they suffered under the communists so lots of indo-Chinese, Cubans, central Americans, Chinese, and Eastern Europeans got in on that waver. Then you can also pass through legally if you have a Master's Degree or higher and find a H1-B visa slot.

We're not talking about people from former communist countries or people with Master's Degrees though. We're talking about peasants from Latin America.

[Whoha]

Bush's plan had a visa class for the family members of those temporary guest visitor workers.

[DinoDoc]

I dunno. It seems to be working in Arizona without causing a huge influx of new illegals into that state.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Most of that has been natural population growth or legalized illegals. Hispanics went from 0% to 15% making them the largest minority group. Plus during the cold war we let anyone in who claimed they suffered under the communists so lots of indo-Chinese, Cubans, central Americans, Chinese, and Eastern Europeans got in on that waver. Then you can also pass through legally if you have a Master's Degree or higher and find a H1-B visa slot.

We're not talking about people from former communist countries or people with Master's Degrees though. We're talking about peasants from Latin America.

20 million, of the 100 million increase in our population since 1965 was natural growth. Remember this entire time coincided with Roe V Wade and a collapse in birth rates to just below replacement rate.

Only 10 million illegals have been legalized by any of the previous 7 amnesties.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Most of that has been natural population growth or legalized illegals. Hispanics went from 0% to 15% making them the largest minority group. Plus during the cold war we let anyone in who claimed they suffered under the communists so lots of indo-Chinese, Cubans, central Americans, Chinese, and Eastern Europeans got in on that waver. Then you can also pass through legally if you have a Master's Degree or higher and find a H1-B visa slot.

We're not talking about people from former communist countries or people with Master's Degrees though. We're talking about peasants from Latin America.

We're still letting Cubans in willy-nilly. These days, the vast majority of them are economic migrants. We've also increased the number of rich Venezuelan "refugees" allowed.

[The Mad Viking]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Price raises have to do with supply and demand. Oil money means demand rises as there is more money floating around. Free trade constrains inflation because it means there is also more supply and individual companies have less room to raise prices since there is more competition. That's why it would lower inflation.

You're right, but you need to balance free trade with diversifying the economy. Unfettered free trade and an excess of cash will crush developing businesses trying to compete with the world market.

[Agathon]

Funny how right wing nut bars harp on about free trade and the free movement of goods, yet they balk at Mexicans wanting to freely offer their labour to US employers.

If you really want a free market, then you have to accept free movement of labour.

Of course, I'm glossing over the whole Republican undeclared "Keep the n***ers and greasers out of White America" policy.